Is New Era better than Infinite Warden after the patch?

[legion666]

Better grappler? NE has the same throws, and now an extremely similar strike/throw situation....and yeah....he has a command grab. How could IW possibly be the better grappler?

The damage from combos isn't as good as IW because of the command grab. That's not to say it's bad damage. It's like 30% and the opponent is in the corner when you're done. I feel like people are really forgetting about how good this command grab really is. For every time IW gets off a f2 and it's blocked, NE can grab 15%. Damage output isn't all about how much damage you can do in one combo.

What better KBs? Since the patch, I've not once been hit with IW's sand trap KB. Not once. What other KB does IW have that NE doesn't have? I hit people with NE's tackle KB at least once a set. I'd call that an advantage for NE.

Sand trap KB is definitely practical I hit it once every match. And NE’s requirements for his Sand trap KB make it non existent outside of amp pillar set up I have mentioned.
The other one is Guantlet of ages KB which is very practical for IW and is impossible to get in NE.
Doing f2xxtackle you risk a full combo for 15% (or 12% and lack of oki if you can’t reach the corner) but condition your opponent to let go of block when you continue the string, most of the time you will go for f212 to stay safe since you can’t hit confirm the second hit of f21 into temporal advantage. The f212 doesn’t give NE any damage midscreen, and committing to f21xxtemporal advantage on block is another risk. With IW you just play the simple regular throw loop/ f21 combo back into the loop game, which has like 0 risk (you only risking them neutral ducking or jumping and full combo punishing your throw, but that is riskier for the opponent) and 14% or 46% for a bar reward. One bar bnb with charged infinity gauntlet makes up for NE’s bnb+a successful guess on a command grab.

 

[DrFolmer]

If you don't have much experience against New Era, the corner game will be super overwhelming. It's like a whole other side of Garry that a lot of people havent seen because Infinite Warden is all people use.

"but bro he's only better in the corner"

But bro, he needs one cmd grab and voila you're in the corner lul

 

[Name v.5.0]

Sand trap KB is definitely practical I hit it once every match. And NE’s requirements for his Sand trap KB make it non existent outside of amp pillar set up I have mentioned.
The other one is Guantlet of ages KB which is very practical for IW and is impossible to get in NE.
Doing f2xxtackle you risk a full combo for 15% (or 12% and lack of oki if you can’t reach the corner) but condition your opponent to let go of block when you continue the string, most of the time you will go for f212 to stay safe since you can’t hit confirm the second hit of f21 into temporal advantage. The f212 doesn’t give NE any damage midscreen, and committing to f21xxtemporal advantage on block is another risk. With IW you just play the simple regular throw loop/ f21 combo back into the loop game, which has like 0 risk (you only risking them neutral ducking or jumping and full combo punishing your throw, but that is riskier for the opponent) and 14% or 46% for a bar reward. One bar bnb with charged infinity gauntlet makes up for NE’s bnb+a successful guess on a command grab.

Ahhh yeah, forgot about the Gauntlet one. I'm not saying IW's sandtrap isnt practical, just that prepatch, I was hit with it all the damn time, and now...Not at all. shrugs

It's true that you cant hit confirm into TA after the 1 in F212 lands, but you can finish into sand trap which gets you, i think, 18% for the whole combo. If they're conditioned to let go for the 1, then you're still getting damage that IW wouldn't get. There's also D1 tics into tackle, and fucking raw tackle.

With IW you just play the simple regular throw loop/ f21 combo back into the loop game, which has like 0 risk

You can do the EXACT same thing with NE if you want. The beauty is the mind games derived from the threat of tackle. If I'm defending against Geras, I'm 100% ready to tech a throw. It's 1 dimensional and braindead. Against NE, you have more to think about while defending, especially if the NE player uses Stepping Back.

I really do see where you're coming from though...Above, someone said that he thought IW and NE were closer to equal now, each with their own benefits and neither better than the other. I think I have to agree with that. Geras is fucking strong, man.

 

[Name v.5.0]

If you don't have much experience against New Era, the corner game will be super overwhelming. It's like a whole other side of Garry that a lot of people havent seen because Infinite Warden is all people use.

"but bro he's only better in the corner"

But bro, he needs one cmd grab and voila you're in the corner lul

And it's not like other command grabs in this game. It's literally the BEST command grab in the game. It hits from outside sweep distance for fucks sake. And a simple BF2 input instead of that wonky DBF crap...amazing.

 

[The_Tile]

Better grappler? NE has the same throws, and now an extremely similar strike/throw situation....and yeah....he has a command grab. How could IW possibly be the better grappler?

The damage from combos isn't as good as IW because of the command grab. That's not to say it's bad damage. It's like 30% and the opponent is in the corner when you're done. I feel like people are really forgetting about how good this command grab really is. For every time IW gets off a f2 and it's blocked, NE can grab 15%. Damage output isn't all about how much damage you can do in one combo.

What better KBs? Since the patch, I've not once been hit with IW's sand trap KB. Not once. What other KB does IW have that NE doesn't have? I hit people with NE's tackle KB at least once a set. I'd call that an advantage for NE.

IW is a better grappler because when they guess wrong on a strike throw mix and you hit them with a mid you're hitting way more damage than NE could ever get, that's why. Also oki off NE's command grab is a bit suspect even in the corner, whereas IW gets oki off literally everything.

And the KBs, he gets the level 3 gauntlet and charged sand trap for reliable combo enders that result in mid 40s1 bar, all the way up to 60+% if you tack it on the end of a D2 KB. Charged sand trap also has utility as a ranged, 30+% punish and a (albeit fuzzyable) mix from 11. New Era gets a command grab kb which you aren't gonna be hitting every single game and a shitty low damage sand trap that you're never even gonna land anyway because it doesn't work from strings

 

[Evil Canadian]

He wasnt able to combo into BF1 after F21 before the patch.

Just wanna say, he could against Kollector :-0 Back when the game launched I played against Kollector and it worked, and was profoundly disappointed to find out its only cause kollector was so fat(wide stance) it worked.

That said yeah I was always a fan of New Era, and I legit think it might be the better pick now. It has hands down the best command grab* in the game, + all the usual geras BS. Now it has more reliable combo structure to boot its just solid.

*Also maybe personal bias in my testing, of the 3 mid hitting command grab o/s people, I find new era geras's the easiest to do? That could just be me though.

 

[Evil Canadian]

IW is a better grappler

haha what

dude literally every connected d4 in new era is a legit strike/grab mix basically. Don't be crazy.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

Idk if it's better... but it's infinitely more entertaining and fun to play. IMO

 

[FonicSox]

Just wanna say, he could against Kollector :-0 Back when the game launched I played against Kollector and it worked, and was profoundly disappointed to find out its only cause kollector was so fat(wide stance) it worked.

That said yeah I was always a fan of New Era, and I legit think it might be the better pick now. It has hands down the best command grab* in the game, + all the usual geras BS. Now it has more reliable combo structure to boot its just solid.

*Also maybe personal bias in my testing, of the 3 mid hitting command grab o/s people, I find new era geras's the easiest to do? That could just be me though.

He could against Geras too. Me thinks it was just the big-boy hurtbox chars (though Kollector surprises me). Never tested it on the Kahns but I'd wager it worked on them too.

 

[Wetdoba]

New Era is so fucking cheap lol

 

[Name v.5.0]

IW is a better grappler because when they guess wrong on a strike throw mix and you hit them with a mid you're hitting way more damage than NE could ever get, that's why. Also oki off NE's command grab is a bit suspect even in the corner, whereas IW gets oki off literally everything.

And the KBs, he gets the level 3 gauntlet and charged sand trap for reliable combo enders that result in mid 40s1 bar, all the way up to 60+% if you tack it on the end of a D2 KB. Charged sand trap also has utility as a ranged, 30+% punish and a (albeit fuzzyable) mix from 11. New Era gets a command grab kb which you aren't gonna be hitting every single game and a shitty low damage sand trap that you're never even gonna land anyway because it doesn't work from strings

Without a charged fist, you're barely doing any more damage per combo than NE. The damage you do get from the charged fist....you make that up with a highly ridiculous command grab. IW actually has to hit that combo and finish it without a roll out anyway. The raw damage output from a braindead strike/throw game doesn't make him better grappler. Losing 110% health from a mix of throws and command grabs in a match is what makes a good grappler. I say fuck strike throw. Be prepared to block and tech a throw. I'm far more terrified of being command grabbed over and over.

I dont get why you think corner oki off tackle is suspect. Love to hear more about that.

Do you play NE? Getting that tackle KB is seriously not hard anymore. I've gotten a pretty good feel for where to be to make it occur on the stages and specifically go for it when I'm near that spot. You may not get it every game, but I'd bet I get it every set.

 

[legion666]

Ahhh yeah, forgot about the Gauntlet one. I'm not saying IW's sandtrap isnt practical, just that prepatch, I was hit with it all the damn time, and now...Not at all. shrugs

It's true that you cant hit confirm into TA after the 1 in F212 lands, but you can finish into sand trap which gets you, i think, 18% for the whole combo. If they're conditioned to let go for the 1, then you're still getting damage that IW wouldn't get. There's also D1 tics into tackle, and fucking raw tackle.



You can do the EXACT same thing with NE if you want. The beauty is the mind games derived from the threat of tackle. If I'm defending against Geras, I'm 100% ready to tech a throw. It's 1 dimensional and braindead. Against NE, you have more to think about while defending, especially if the NE player uses Stepping Back.

I really do see where you're coming from though...Above, someone said that he thought IW and NE were closer to equal now, each with their own benefits and neither better than the other. I think I have to agree with that. Geras is fucking strong, man.

I know I started mk11 playing NE. D1xxTackle is good but can be interrupted. 18% isn’t really scary, but I mean I understand the value of the mix. And technically it is possible to do f212, dash, f1 1+3 xx Sand trap) but it soooo right. Of course mix is more versatile in NE. But it is like the difference between Bonepicker Baraka and Marauder Baraka.
Of course you are ready to tech a throw against IW, but throws are 50/50s and Geras loops with both throws. If you guess wrong and eat a couple of throws that adds up. It is universal for IW and NE. But IW has a much higher reward for hitting you which makes you block more and look for throws more which in turn allows for more shimmies to be used, and again the reward is half of opponent’s lifebar. I don’t think it’s one dimensional at all.
I definitely think both variations have a place in this new meta.
On a side note Geras would be so broke if he had Titan tackle + Gauntlet of Ages +Quick Sand and something else instead of Bed of Spikes launcher. Like with fully charged Gauntlet Command grab does 24%! So if you would go for F21xxtemporal adv.,d2,d3,d3 and then either f212 or f2xxtackle, it is 300+ damage and another mix into either 24% or a combo.

 

[FonicSox]

I think the variations are comparable but IW gets 45% for one bar + oki every time it touches you with 11 after gauntlet is charged (the bulk of that damage being grounded/unbreakable). And it's not like by now Geras players aren't full charging gauntlet as soon as they hit you with anything. That's not even taking into consideration sand traps themselves lead to oki as well.

New Era can be overwhelming and the strength of the cmd grab + threat off every blocked f2 is big, but I just don't see how it trumps the above. Any setup you use with New Era is basically aiming for a 15% cmd grab that has questionable oki anyway once I'm in the corner and none outside of the wall splat. After splat his options are dash cmd grab or dash f3, the latter beating jumps. It's not really even a 50/50 since forward roll covers both options and Geras has to regular throw to catch you. You're needing to open me up 3 times for every 1 time you get popped by IW.

 

[The_Tile]

Without a charged fist, you're barely doing any more damage per combo than NE. The damage you do get from the charged fist....you make that up with a highly ridiculous command grab. IW actually has to hit that combo and finish it without a roll out anyway. The raw damage output from a braindead strike/throw game doesn't make him better grappler. Losing 110% health from a mix of throws and command grabs in a match is what makes a good grappler. I say fuck strike throw. Be prepared to block and tech a throw. I'm far more terrified of being command grabbed over and over.

I dont get why you think corner oki off tackle is suspect. Love to hear more about that.

Do you play NE? Getting that tackle KB is seriously not hard anymore. I've gotten a pretty good feel for where to be to make it occur on the stages and specifically go for it when I'm near that spot. You may not get it every game, but I'd bet I get it every set.

I played him towards the start of the game before switching to IW.

IW has more access to high damage than just fist, he can also use the sand trap KB to increase damage. Then he has the fist kb, then just regular charged fist increasing his damage after he's already used those two sources of damage.

Also the fact that if you guess wrong as NE, and they get hit by f2, or whatever normal you're trying to tick from you're eating a full combo also makes it a bit less worth using in comparison to just his regular throw. Which also does more damage unless you take them to the corner might I add.

 

[Name v.5.0]

I played him towards the start of the game before switching to IW.

IW has more access to high damage than just fist, he can also use the sand trap KB to increase damage. Then he has the fist kb, then just regular charged fist increasing his damage after he's already used those two sources of damage.

Also the fact that if you guess wrong as NE, and they get hit by f2, or whatever normal you're trying to tick from you're eating a full combo also makes it a bit less worth using in comparison to just his regular throw. Which also does more damage unless you take them to the corner might I add.

Fair enough. Raw damage isnt every thing, but I'm thinking we may both have valid enough points to say that Geras' variations are both really good.

 

[Dr Omnipotent]

IW is a better grappler because when they guess wrong on a strike throw mix and you hit them with a mid you're hitting way more damage than NE could ever get, that's why. Also oki off NE's command grab is a bit suspect even in the corner, whereas IW gets oki off literally everything.

And the KBs, he gets the level 3 gauntlet and charged sand trap for reliable combo enders that result in mid 40s1 bar, all the way up to 60+% if you tack it on the end of a D2 KB. Charged sand trap also has utility as a ranged, 30+% punish and a (albeit fuzzyable) mix from 11. New Era gets a command grab kb which you aren't gonna be hitting every single game and a shitty low damage sand trap that you're never even gonna land anyway because it doesn't work from strings

With all due respect, it's insane to say Infinite Warden is the better grappled. NE has the best command grab in the game that can very easily lock an opponent down into eating more of them.

New Era is way more complex and set up heavy, as well as demanding hit confirm-wise. But NE is an absolute beast in every sense everywhere on screen when played well. I really think people don't understand the strength of the setups yet. NE is completely insane.

IW has better antizoning depending on the matchup and much bigger damage if he's will ing to burn the resources, but that's all it has on New Era, and that's nit enough to call it a better grappler.

Also I get the Titan Tackle KB like every match. It's very easy to setup considering people have a hard time even reading the grab coming.

 

[Dr Omnipotent]

I think the variations are comparable but IW gets 45% for one bar + oki every time it touches you with 11 after gauntlet is charged (the bulk of that damage being grounded/unbreakable). And it's not like by now Geras players aren't full charging gauntlet as soon as they hit you with anything. That's not even taking into consideration sand traps themselves lead to oki as well.

New Era can be overwhelming and the strength of the cmd grab + threat off every blocked f2 is big, but I just don't see how it trumps the above. Any setup you use with New Era is basically aiming for a 15% cmd grab that has questionable oki anyway once I'm in the corner and none outside of the wall splat. After splat his options are dash cmd grab or dash f3, the latter beating jumps. It's not really even a 50/50 since forward roll covers both options and Geras has to regular throw to catch you. You're needing to open me up 3 times for every 1 time you get popped by IW.

New Era covers the forward roll in the corner with F1 step it back, you confirm the step if they roll, but it' safe to confirm on a block too. F1 cancel will lead Geras to directly in position to punish a roll.

If hits can lead to full combo instead. Also if you condition you can easily get your corner KB if you want unbreakable damage.

If they try to jump out you anti air them and full combo.

If they try to hop/neutral jump out you sand pillar.

If the stand block you can low sand or tick into Titan tackle easily.

If they low block you can Titan Tackle to reset. Also every combo done will end in Titan Tackle and this scenario will be literally 90% if the match if New Era is even remotely in control. Melts health bars in a way where the block button doesn't help them escape whatsoever.

They literally damn near can't escape if you're on point.

Eventually many opponents get so afraid /annoyed of the Titan Tackle they just start unblocking and trying to punish or evade it. Thats when you can just start getting free combos.

 

[Dr Omnipotent]

I think the variations are comparable but IW gets 45% for one bar + oki every time it touches you with 11 after gauntlet is charged (the bulk of that damage being grounded/unbreakable). And it's not like by now Geras players aren't full charging gauntlet as soon as they hit you with anything. That's not even taking into consideration sand traps themselves lead to oki as well.

New Era can be overwhelming and the strength of the cmd grab + threat off every blocked f2 is big, but I just don't see how it trumps the above. Any setup you use with New Era is basically aiming for a 15% cmd grab that has questionable oki anyway once I'm in the corner and none outside of the wall splat. After splat his options are dash cmd grab or dash f3, the latter beating jumps. It's not really even a 50/50 since forward roll covers both options and Geras has to regular throw to catch you. You're needing to open me up 3 times for every 1 time you get popped by IW.

New Era covers the forward roll in the corner with F1 step it back, you confirm the step if they roll, but it' safe to confirm on a block too. F1 cancel will lead Geras to directly in position to punish a roll.

If hits can lead to full combo instead. Also if you condition you can easily get your corner KB if you want unbreakable damage.

If they try to jump out you anti air them and full combo.

If they try to hop/neutral jump out you sand pillar.

If the stand block you can low sand or tick into Titan tackle easily.

If they low block you can Titan Tackle to reset. Also every combo done will end in Titan Tackle and this scenario will be literally 90% if the match if New Era is even remotely in control. Melts health bars in a way where the block button doesn't help them escape whatsoever.

They literally damn near can't escape if you're on point.

Eventually many opponents get so afraid /annoyed of the Titan Tackle they just start unblocking and trying to punish or evade it. Thats when you can just start getting free combos.

 

[XxSYNDROISxX]

It's that time freezing move, BF1(A). He wasnt able to combo into BF1 after F21 before the patch. Now he can.

F21~BF1(A), dash, D2, D2, JiD2, F3~BF2 gets you 30%.

Let's be honest dude nine times out of 10 you're going to hit that crushing blow so 34%