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Is Erron Black Broken?

RM Ree

Shiba Tamer
He’s a clear choice for best character. I’ve spent hours in the lab with him. He excels at everything and doesn’t have any clear weaknesses. In fact, he DOES have some game breaking qualities not afforded to most other characters. Unreasonably large hitboxes, unblockable damage from an independent source, and the lack of a hurt box during some recovery frames.

F4 has a huge hitbox, wins neutral safely, applies a 50/50 from 3/4 screen, deals good damage, has a KB threat and can steal a turn on block with an AMP which is also safe (often times from flawless block attacks). F4 alone is better than D’Vorah as a whole character.

B222 is an 11f mid, has good range, applies two consecutive 50/50’s, is hit easily confirmable, special cancellable, and safe on block w/ scud shot, which also has the ability to steal a turn safely (again).

21212 starts high, applies two consecutive 50/50’s (again), is safe (...again), gapless, and when used in conjunction with acid deals high unblockable damage.

F32 of all his strings is the most palatable. Good range, safe, hit confirmable, BUT you can flawless block the second hit to poke punish or u2 launch.

If they do change him, I want him to keep what makes him strong, but make him take risks or pay resources for safety. Fatal blow 10f full screen? Cool. Acid puddle into throw dealing ~35%? Fine. Full screen 50/50? As long as there’s some risk and counter play.

  • Scud shot CANCEL costs 1 bar of DEF meter. This way he maintains anti/ counter zoning utility, but must sacrifice resources to make powerful but unsafe strings safe (b222).
  • Reduce f4 hitbox, make f4 AMP -15 on block. This would bring this move more in line with other similar moves (Shao Kahn’s wrath hammer). Safe on block with the unsafe option to maintain advantage.
  • 21212 string -10 on block. Poke punishable in open space, button punishable in the corner. Still gapless, still confirmable, still a mix-up.
 

Elias6999

Mournful Master
What if he couldn’t cancel into scud shot? Or would that be too harsh? He does have a slide cancel anyway, and the scud shot probably wasn’t meant to be used the way it is being used now lol.
 
Reactions: JTC

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
I think Erron is the example of perfectly made character that seems broken because other characters have obvious problems.

But I’ve never understood why he could cancel Scud on 21212...just remove the cancel ability.

An easy fix is making Scud shots cost defensive and offensive bar, because the move is both defensive and offensive.

Also, make amplified big boot cost both meters, again, it’s offensive and defensive, and make it punishable.

He doesn’t have to be ruined, there are simple fixes.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Also let's not go down the 'not represented in tournament so it's fine' chat. Time and Time again we see absolutely broken characters underrepresented in tournament.

Often later appearing and destroying the scene.
 
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TyCarter35

Bonafide Jax scrub
Also let's not go down the 'not represented in tournament so it's fine' chat. Time and Time again we see absolutely broken characters underrepresented in tournament.

Often later appearing and destroying the scene.
MKX Cutthroat Kano is basically the epitome of underrepresented but strong AF. But pree sure EB has gotten a fair share of representation in tourneys so far
 

NeonGroovyGator

Vampire mommy simp
He has the same problem as other top tiers in this game: nearly everything any character could possibly need with little to no drawbacks.
In the way this game is designed, most characters can compete with the top tiers, but that doesn't mean he isn't busted. The biggest thing separating top tiers from everyone else is risk/reward imo. Always in their favor.
 

REO

Undead
Part 2 of my "How to beat Erron Black" series is now up for those who have been waiting:

 

Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
Yes yes yes. Get this broke pos out immediately. Hes no fun to watch. Hes no fun to play. Hes the derpiest derp to ever derp. He should not have a projectile parry. B222 shouod be full combo punishable ALWAYS. Why? Because its a hit confirmable launcher for no meter, that's why. If he's dumb enough to finish the string, he should die for it. Just like sonya does with her overhead string.

Nerf now. Nerf all top tiers so that we can play mk11 and not top tier derp fest.
 
Can we talk about erron black pokes???

d1: 6 frames, -4 on block (amazing range)
d3: 7 frames, -2 on block (half screen range)
d4: 8 frames, -3 on block, +16 hit advantage, low profiles everything (full screen range lol)

wtf is this???
What screen do you play? :)
I found D1 and D4 pretty short compared to Scorpion's pokes (D1, D4). So after Scorpion play I really need to adjust my spacing with Erron. Maybe Scorpion is bad example just saying as a complaint for short Erron pokes lol. D3 is amazing though and still 7F.

Erron's D4 is also godlike though as throw is a viable follow up even on max range.
So Erron can not complain about himself.

I found pretty fun to play with him as need good footsies (I do not spam F4 and 50/50s) but the more I play with him I see how strong he is and rather play with more fair character to use and improve my skills better - but I am just kasual player.
 
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What screen do you play? :)
I found D1 and D4 pretty short compared to Scorpion's pokes (D1, D4). So after Scorpion play I really need to adjust my spacing with Erron. Maybe Scorpion is bad example just saying as a complaint for short Erron pokes lol. D3 is amazing though and still 7F.

Erron's D4 is also godlike though as throw is a viable follow up even on max range.
So Erron can not complain about himself.

I found pretty fun to play with him as need good footsies (I do not spam F4 and 50/50s) but the more I play with him I see how strong he is and rather play with more fair character to use and improve my skills better - but I am just kasual player.
Scorping d1 and d4 are also stupid

Still amazed by the fact that you need perfect timing with a 9 frame mid to punish Erron mashing d3
 
Only a poke masher would complain about 9 frame mids :cool:
With Scorpion it is pretty annoying against mashers but the bad ones will not stop after a counter poke and 13-14F mid is enough after a D1. Or they not stop until a step back whiff punish so I can not complain.
And fortunately throw acts as 10F MID in that situations as well.

Of course Erron D3 would laugh on the throw too (I dunno if it can trade with a throw).
 

Resistible

MK fan since '92
How the hell do you guys do Cattle Toss? I've tried tapping, rolling my thumb, using the stick, and changing the settings. Nothing is working for me and it's the only D,B,F in the game I can't do