Intro Doomsday/Space Control

[SonicBoomBrad]

Why would you ever use d2 when he has a 5 frame air grab that leads into a meaty?

I usually catch my oppenents with D2 after a blocked 123 string. This happens when they press buttons after 123

You mean d1 right? Because 123 is only +2. You're not beating out anything with d2 after that unless the person you're playing is retarded.

 

[GGA Saucy Jack]

Its all a matter of opinion, but I personally think Doomys d2 is severly underrated.

Its his 2nd fastest normal (9 frames)
Its safe on block (-4)
The block stun is deceptively fast, like Ravens f2233 string. You can catch people with shenanigans after a blocked d2. Yes I know this is a gimmick, but it works sometimes. Take it for what it is.
its hit box extends well behind Doomy to stop crossovers
You can still get your air grab ender (anti-air d2, b3, j3, air snatch)

All in all, I dont see how this could be viewed as a bad normal. But again, its all a matter of opinion. Thats just my take.

 

[MastererBetty]

Why would you ever use d2 when he has a 5 frame air grab that leads into a meaty?


You mean d1 right? Because 123 is only +2. You're not beating out anything with d2 after that unless the person you're playing is retarded.

Honestly, I have great success with D1 after 123, however D2 does catch people mashing buttons which can be followed for a corner carry combo. I wouldn't abandon the normal entirely like all normals in the game they all carry a purpose is what i'm I'm saying.

Priority on this move seems pretty good too

 

[GGA HAN]

Why would you ever use d2 when he has a 5 frame air grab that leads into a meaty?


You mean d1 right? Because 123 is only +2. You're not beating out anything with d2 after that unless the person you're playing is retarded.

I'm not sure the true reason, but I think the air grab reverses positions unless you MB it, no? So in order to keep them in the corner and retain meter, I know his d2 works. Like I said, ImNewbieSauce is the guy that makes it work for him, and it sounds like MastererBetty has had some success with it as well. Not trying to stir the pot, just an observation...

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

snip

It reverses potions no matter what. But you get a free meaty afterward. It's not like Doomsday has trouble taking people to the corner. I'm saying it's not smart to use a normal that can potentially get stuffed and cause you to get combod into a knockdown (which is Doomsday's worst spot considering he has no true wake ups), when he has a 5 frame air grab with a huge hitbox that gives him a free set up into corner carry against 99% of the cast if you time it right.

I'm pretty convinced Jack gets away with stuff like that against you guys because none of you know the Doomsday match up. Every time I've actually sat down and watched GGA I've seen him get away with a lot of things that really shouldn't work. And that's not an insult or anything, it's just me stating a fact. You could say the same thing to me about Hawk Girl or Harley.

Doomsday is all about conditioning your opponent to respect your options and make mistakes. I'd much rather get it into my opponent's head that they are never going to be able to jump than keep them in the corner. If I do that, my ground game is just that much more scary.

Not saying it's not a decent tool, but it's a gimmick. And gimmicks shouldn't be considered space control. No disrespect, but I really don't understand why people who don't understand a character try to talk theory about a character. I've been seeing this everywhere lately, even from people at my local. It's pretty silly.

 

[MastererBetty]

I think there's a misunderstanding going on here between Air Snatch and D2 for Anti-Air purposes Air Snatch is "THE" move to use. I only use D2 sometimes after 123

 

[GGA Saucy Jack]

SonicBoomBrad

Your assumption that I "get away with things" is both true and false. True in the fact that yes, I do things that are not guaranteed, I.e. a d1 after a blocked d2. I can get easily get blown up for that. Agreed. But I don't. And the reason why is your other point.

I am conditioning them. Thats why it works. Its all well and good to watch a stream and say "man, player X is getting away with murder" but do you honestly think the players in Chicago are so god awful at the game that I just do whatever the hell I want with no consequences? Thats incredibly insulting to not only me, but everyone I play with. You saying my scene "doesnt know the Doomsday matchup" is a direct shot at me not only as a player, but as a training partner.

I just don't understand your "I'm the best, everyone else is stupid" mentality. How does that help you grow as a player? I'm honestly asking. If there is a good reason why that helps, I'm willing to listen to help my game out. I'm not too proud.

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

snip

Not a shot at you. Just a fact. You get away with hella jumps and random super novas, and the strings you use have holes. I don't ever see you go for legit, guaranteed frame traps. Even in the corner, when you could be going to certain set-ups and guaranteed pressure, you just do raw ES over and over like that actually stuffs wake ups. Again, it's not a shot, I'm stating how you play and what you get away with. Obviously you place very well at your local, so it works against some people. But that shit would not fly against someone like Tyrant or DJT. None of this helps me. I'm trying to help you as a player because I don't think people that play Doomsday play him properly. I say this with results at a local with debatably the best competition in the entire United States.

Saying they don't know the match up isn't an insult at you as a player or a training partner. If anything it just says the people you play with don't care enough to learn the match up. In which case you should be getting away with all the things you get away with.

I have the "I'm the best, and everyone else is stupid" attitude because no one listens to things I say when I try to be nice about them. I don't understand why people argue with me about semantics when I know this character better than 99% of people that play him. You don't see people arguing with Tom Brady about Aquaman shit. It's because they think Doomsday is a simple character and they believe they understand his options because he has so few, when in reality they have no idea what the fuck they're talking about. I've sat there and studied frame data for hours. I know what works and what doesn't. Nothing I post on these forums benefits me. I've never actually read something on here that has benefited my playstyle. It's to help other people that play this character. You don't have to take my advice, you don't have to care.

I'm trying to help level up the Doomsday community because we're going to need a lot of help once people learn how to actually play against this character. Because he's truthfully 80% gimmicks, 9% footsies, and 1% frame traps. And if you're going to play a footsie based, frame trap character, you're way better off just picking Superman or Aquaman, because they do 10000x more damage, and have way better set ups.

 

[GGA Saucy Jack]

I honestly don't even know what to say. I have thought about how to respond to your post for an hour, and not a single option I could come up with wouldn't have you telling me I'm an idiot, or cursing at me. I'm not going to post here anymore, it is unfair to my scene that you constantly take shots at them because we disagree on something. I hope you do well at NEC, and for the rest of the life of the game. Mission accomplished, I am leaving the Doomsday forums.

 

[16 Bit]

But raw ES does stuff wakeups. In the corner CW without trait cannot wakeup with anything against ES.

Spoiler

DJT has been beaten in tournament by GGA players, including one of our Doomsday players. Maybe you should stop name dropping him when talking about how bad we are.

 

[Big Pampering]

lol what?

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

snip

It only stuffs wake ups that aren't fully invincible, and it's not a good habit to get into, even Catwoman can just trait out of it. There's much better set ups in the corner against her that lead into much dirtier mix ups. Is it wrong for me to try to correct play and level up the community? Stop taking it so personally and look at it from an objective point of view.

 

[16 Bit]

Those are the wakeups he's using it against.

It's probably wrong when you come off super condescending and drive away people that want to talk about the game. But I mean you're the best and what not so I guess it doesn't matter.

 

[LEGEND]

Those are the wakeups he's using it against.

don't use wake-ups that aren't fully invincible, its not hard to block and there is much less risk in trying to block then there is trying to wake up

this is a non issue. Catwoman actually having access to a wake-up (sometimes) that can get her up without risk is a bonus. You are looking at it the wrong way

 

[16 Bit]

don't use wake-ups that aren't fully invincible, its not hard to block and there is much less risk in trying to block then there is trying to wake up

this is a non issue. Catwoman actually having access to a wake-up (sometimes) that can get her up without risk is a bonus. You are looking at it the wrong way

The point is when I don't have access to trait it's a safe overhead that she must respect that loops into the same situation on hit. Then even when I have trait I have to use it if I want to wakeup which he can blow up. Seems pretty good to me.

 

[LEGEND]

The point is when I don't have access to trait it's a safe overhead that she must respect that loops into the same situation on hit.

the majority of the time when you fail at blocking ES you should only be losing about 3% total, yes it repeats into the same situation but it isn't exactly the end of the world. And blocking one successfully means you get to back away and play footsies

not saying that DD's ES is a bad tool, just that having to block it isn't as big of a deal as it may seem. Seriously though, in other mus, wouldn't you gladly take 3% chip every time you got knocked down if it meant you got to get up relatively safely and play footsies?

Of course there are other ways DD can mix you up, but they all lead to next to no damage and are heavily punishable

 

[16 Bit]

We're talking about the corner so I'm not exactly in a great footsies position when I block it. This is the MU we're talking about. He isn't doing it against characters with strong wakeup attacks.

Why are we talking about this anyway? I don't know this MU and Sonic Boom Brad is the greatest Doomsday to ever live(the first ever matchup dictator). This entire sub-forum should probably be shut down.

 

[Sajam]

TYM.

We know drama.

 

[LEGEND]

We're talking about the corner so I'm not exactly in a great footsies position when I block it.

its not like blocking ES suddenly becomes a bad option just because you are in the corner

My whole point is that not having a good wake-up vs DD is not that big a deal. I'm just trying to help, and my suggestion is to not wake-up unless you have trait and have a good read that he won't try and blow it up. IMO CW's trait is better served for neutralizing DD's trait anyway

 

[16 Bit]

Well yes, that's why it's good. It's the ultimate conditioning tool to make me not wake up so he can play the rest of his game.

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

Well yes, that's why it's good. It's the ultimate conditioning tool to make me not wake up so he can play the rest of his game.

If you know how to block Doomsday, he doesn't have a game.

 

[16 Bit]

Oh

 

[xInfra Deadx]

...

 

[Metzos]

It seems that Brad hit a nerve here. I agree with him and i have been saying this for quite some time. But if you dont want to hear players that main DD and know what that character is about, then no problem. Truth hurts apparently. DD is a gimmicky character, always was. Its like back in the early MK9 days where Ermac was S tier because people didnt know how to fight against him. After he was explored more, boom, he dropped in his placing really fast. Same is with DD. When you people understand this, then you ll see what Brad was talking about. I can understand what he means cause, like me, he is frustrated by people coming in the DD forums and saying that DD is godlike and can destroy the entire cast etc etc, when apparently those people dont even know how to defend themselves against him or cant even block ES consistently. The up playing of DD needs to stop sometime soon, cause its getting really ridiculous.

 

[16 Bit]

You guys up play Catwoman despite not playing her so I have no sympathy.