HungryforPasta
Come and Get it!
Not my Work, all credit for this information goes to JP!
So Uhm... A Quick Crash Course On Doomsday (Long Read... Sorry.)
Note: I put this up on a previous thread and was told to just post a brand new thread altogether.
Also: This post will keep updating throughout the weeks once more tech is revealed.
Hey guys, I'm just a simple ol' Doomsday player that has been lurking through the forums, the youtubes, and the twitch streams to find more optical tech for Doomsday and I've just come to a couple conclusions:
1. No matter what, no much you try to optimize his damage output, Doomsday has one the worst combo damage outputs in the game in comparison to other characters.
Sorry Tony-T, I loved that 70% combo you posted, but that will almost never happen at all unless you're willing to sacrifice that much health and meter for trying to get in so you can use all your meter in one combo. Doomsday's combo ability is so limiting in the game yet they scale his damage high enough to where you can only get 30% - 40% off of an X hit combo. And if you even try to shorten it, you're releasing the same amount of damage.
2. All of his specials are REALLY unsafe and leave him at a big disadvantage against characters that have more range than him.
The only viable special in Doomsday's arsenal is Venom with MB. Other than that you'd only use Earth Shaker and Supernova if they were caught sleeping but they can always dash out of them. Air Venom as somewhat of a wakeup reversal is also somewhat ok. Which leads me to my third point.
3. Doomsday has no good moves on wake up.
Your best bet is to pray you don't get hit with an overhead or a low depending on what you want to try to block or push block.
4. Doomsday has NO low normals at all except for sweep.
Sorry guys but if you want high low mix ups that will hit confirm into full damage then you've come to the wrong character. His only low attack is his sweep.
5. Jumping will get you killed!
Body splash is a really good jump in with huge combo potential until you use it over and over again like an idiot. Yes you can jump cancel out of dash but it doesn't mean you have to use it to cover more ground. You'll get simply back 3'd, anti-air supered, or zoned out hard.
6. Activating your trait does NOT mean you have super armor.
You have a whole 5 seconds with this so called "armor" and it doesn't give you any kind of invincibility, it gives you NO power up whatsoever, and still take damage. As a matter of fact, your attack animations are interrupted once you are hit only once.
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So as you already notice, we're starting to see a pattern with this character and you're starting to think, oh maybe he's not as good as I thought he was, and you're wrong. Which leads me to my most important note.
7. None of these negative things matter because Doomsday is absolutely one of the best characters in the game.
What makes Doomsday the best character in the world are his oki and setup potential, along with him being one of the quickest characters in the game. So with that said, he doesn't really need damage going inside.
Now you may ask, so what does he have left since the first 6 points are what make him a bad character?
He still has all of those options available to him. It's all just thinking about how you're going to use them. I only put those points up to show you the consequences that you may be dealing with later on as the game progresses. So let's refer back to the first couple of points really quick
Statement 1: Combo Potential
Yes he has no real stylish 50%-80% combos that you'd might like to do but he doesn't need it. If your combos only do as little as 10%-15% then you should know that you only need to hit your opponent 10 times before they die. And half of those 10 times, if you use him right, you WILL be right on top of them and will be guaranteed a lot of oki setups.
BUT MY METER CAN PRODUCE MORE DAMAGE I PROMISE!!! - As for his meter usage for more damage potential, you have to realize that you're going to have to use his meter not necessarily to extend your combos or comboing into super. You're more likely going to have to use his meter for getting inside and staying in your opponents face. Which leads to my second statement.
Statement 2: Special Usage
Again, all of his specials lead you into unsafe situations that can cost you your momentum and possibly the whole round/game.
The only safe one is the meter burned Venom because it has invincibility and armor. But it doesn't mean you can't use the rest of the other specials at all. Again I'm just pointing out the consequences for their use.
Air Snatch is a really good anti air tool because it comes out super fast and if you use the meter burn version, you can throw them into the corner which is basically where the whole world of oki and setups open up to you.
Air Venom is also a good anti air tool that has a nice big hit box on it so it has the least possibility of it being traded. You can also use the meter burn version to get over a projectile and use it as a dive kick on the way down but this will be unlikely since it is super unsafe and not practical enough.
Earth Shaker is a good high low mixup but your opponent can dash out of it if you're using it during a block string. That's just something to keep in mind. The use of it is still good for oki if you can meaty the move on time, and the meter burn version pops them up into the air towards you to get a combo started or going.
Supernova is really ideal since it is unblockable but it can sadly be dashed out of or MB Back 3'd into. But it is a good anti zoning tool if you can time the meter burn one precisely to get inside with a knockdown just in case someone is spamming a bit too much.
Statement 3: Reversals
You have none.
BUT!!!! - No. Unless they're that dumb or late on a jump in meaty attack, you're just going to simply have to learn how to defend because even though Air Venom is a pretty okay reversal, it'll be costly if you get baited out of it.
Statement 4: High/Low Mixups and Setups
You're only going to be able to use these mixups as oki since sweep is his only normal that hits low. But it's not necessarily a bad thing since he has a really fast 11 frame sweep that reaches pretty far. And if they try to roll back and/or back dash away from you just dash forward twice to at least stay in their face, if you can reach out and sweep them again from max range, even better.
OKI OKI OKI!!!! - Just because he has a lot of oki, doens't mean he can't be reversaled out of, so use your meaty's wisely especially the overheads since they are really slow.
Statement 5: Jumping
Just stop jumping around like an idiot trying to get a crossup body splash, especially if you know that your opponent can counter body splash. People are going to learn later on that you can just simply dash out of that normal or not have to contest it at all since it has low block stun. You're just simply going to have to learn how to have a strong ground game.
BUT I HAVE A JUMP CANCEL FOR FORWARD DASH!!! - Yes jump cancelling your dash is cool but it sucks when you get anti air supered for the lose if you don't pay attention to your opponents meter. Yes Doomsday is really fast but he can also lead you to be brain dead from time to time and this is the main reason why.
Statement 6: This so called "Armor"
Yes, it sucks. Doomsday can get interrupted mid animation whenever he gets hit. But you have to know that he CANNOT get grabbed (normal or command), CANNOT be knocked down, and that he CANNOT be combo'd for a whole 6 seconds. So that means, even on hit, they are minus. So just walk forward.
SERIOUSLY!!!! - Just walk forward and jump to your heart's content (in a smart way). You'll either be closer than you ever will be against a tough zoner, or be able to stay on the offensive even though you seem to be passive stopping mid combo just to activate your trait. It's a really unique type of armor and I wish for this to be utilized more.
Additional Notes:
- Connecting some safe block strings into Down 1 then throw is really strong since his grab range is really far. Thus creating more oki for him.
- Interactables will really help Doomsday out in terms of setting up for more damage so know what stages will help him out most.
- Reacting with anti air super, or whiff punish super is not practical since it's only about 40%. You're going to need to more than likely save your meter for Wagers to gain red life back and reset the momentum.
- Back 3 hits above his head.
- Comboing into backwards bounce cancel to get the stage transition is good depending on what the next set of interactables are.
- Never use Down 2 as an anti air. It's just bad. You can use it in combos to lift up your opponent a bit more mid juggle though.
Safe Block Strings:
Back 2, 3, 1
Forward 2, 3
1, 1, 2
2, 3, Down 1
Final Thoughts:
Doomsday all around is a really versatile character who's not really as OP as people think. He's just really easy to use at the moment until people start actually learning the characters and not the combos. He can get inside quite fairly, and his oki is hands down one of the best in the game. He's annoying to play against but will be more annoying to use once people figure him out. Other than that, just be prepared to use a lot of meter on trying to get inside and make sure you try to be a solid as possible and not rush down to hard or else you'll lose to a lot of the cast.
______________________________________________________
Hopefully this read was somewhat useful for those of you who want to pick up Doomsday or want to understand him a bit more. If there's anything I missed or am wrong about please by all means, reply to your hearts content. Other than that, I won't be able to test any Doomsday theory's online with you guys due to my poor internet speed. So if any of you live in the NorCal Bay Area that are willing to play, hit me up.
I am R-God or JP for short.Note: I put this up on a previous thread and was told to just post a brand new thread altogether.
Also: This post will keep updating throughout the weeks once more tech is revealed.
Hey guys, I'm just a simple ol' Doomsday player that has been lurking through the forums, the youtubes, and the twitch streams to find more optical tech for Doomsday and I've just come to a couple conclusions:
1. No matter what, no much you try to optimize his damage output, Doomsday has one the worst combo damage outputs in the game in comparison to other characters.
Sorry Tony-T, I loved that 70% combo you posted, but that will almost never happen at all unless you're willing to sacrifice that much health and meter for trying to get in so you can use all your meter in one combo. Doomsday's combo ability is so limiting in the game yet they scale his damage high enough to where you can only get 30% - 40% off of an X hit combo. And if you even try to shorten it, you're releasing the same amount of damage.
2. All of his specials are REALLY unsafe and leave him at a big disadvantage against characters that have more range than him.
The only viable special in Doomsday's arsenal is Venom with MB. Other than that you'd only use Earth Shaker and Supernova if they were caught sleeping but they can always dash out of them. Air Venom as somewhat of a wakeup reversal is also somewhat ok. Which leads me to my third point.
3. Doomsday has no good moves on wake up.
Your best bet is to pray you don't get hit with an overhead or a low depending on what you want to try to block or push block.
4. Doomsday has NO low normals at all except for sweep.
Sorry guys but if you want high low mix ups that will hit confirm into full damage then you've come to the wrong character. His only low attack is his sweep.
5. Jumping will get you killed!
Body splash is a really good jump in with huge combo potential until you use it over and over again like an idiot. Yes you can jump cancel out of dash but it doesn't mean you have to use it to cover more ground. You'll get simply back 3'd, anti-air supered, or zoned out hard.
6. Activating your trait does NOT mean you have super armor.
You have a whole 5 seconds with this so called "armor" and it doesn't give you any kind of invincibility, it gives you NO power up whatsoever, and still take damage. As a matter of fact, your attack animations are interrupted once you are hit only once.
_________________________________________________________
So as you already notice, we're starting to see a pattern with this character and you're starting to think, oh maybe he's not as good as I thought he was, and you're wrong. Which leads me to my most important note.
7. None of these negative things matter because Doomsday is absolutely one of the best characters in the game.
What makes Doomsday the best character in the world are his oki and setup potential, along with him being one of the quickest characters in the game. So with that said, he doesn't really need damage going inside.
Now you may ask, so what does he have left since the first 6 points are what make him a bad character?
He still has all of those options available to him. It's all just thinking about how you're going to use them. I only put those points up to show you the consequences that you may be dealing with later on as the game progresses. So let's refer back to the first couple of points really quick
Statement 1: Combo Potential
Yes he has no real stylish 50%-80% combos that you'd might like to do but he doesn't need it. If your combos only do as little as 10%-15% then you should know that you only need to hit your opponent 10 times before they die. And half of those 10 times, if you use him right, you WILL be right on top of them and will be guaranteed a lot of oki setups.
BUT MY METER CAN PRODUCE MORE DAMAGE I PROMISE!!! - As for his meter usage for more damage potential, you have to realize that you're going to have to use his meter not necessarily to extend your combos or comboing into super. You're more likely going to have to use his meter for getting inside and staying in your opponents face. Which leads to my second statement.
Statement 2: Special Usage
Again, all of his specials lead you into unsafe situations that can cost you your momentum and possibly the whole round/game.
The only safe one is the meter burned Venom because it has invincibility and armor. But it doesn't mean you can't use the rest of the other specials at all. Again I'm just pointing out the consequences for their use.
Air Snatch is a really good anti air tool because it comes out super fast and if you use the meter burn version, you can throw them into the corner which is basically where the whole world of oki and setups open up to you.
Air Venom is also a good anti air tool that has a nice big hit box on it so it has the least possibility of it being traded. You can also use the meter burn version to get over a projectile and use it as a dive kick on the way down but this will be unlikely since it is super unsafe and not practical enough.
Earth Shaker is a good high low mixup but your opponent can dash out of it if you're using it during a block string. That's just something to keep in mind. The use of it is still good for oki if you can meaty the move on time, and the meter burn version pops them up into the air towards you to get a combo started or going.
Supernova is really ideal since it is unblockable but it can sadly be dashed out of or MB Back 3'd into. But it is a good anti zoning tool if you can time the meter burn one precisely to get inside with a knockdown just in case someone is spamming a bit too much.
Statement 3: Reversals
You have none.
BUT!!!! - No. Unless they're that dumb or late on a jump in meaty attack, you're just going to simply have to learn how to defend because even though Air Venom is a pretty okay reversal, it'll be costly if you get baited out of it.
Statement 4: High/Low Mixups and Setups
You're only going to be able to use these mixups as oki since sweep is his only normal that hits low. But it's not necessarily a bad thing since he has a really fast 11 frame sweep that reaches pretty far. And if they try to roll back and/or back dash away from you just dash forward twice to at least stay in their face, if you can reach out and sweep them again from max range, even better.
OKI OKI OKI!!!! - Just because he has a lot of oki, doens't mean he can't be reversaled out of, so use your meaty's wisely especially the overheads since they are really slow.
Statement 5: Jumping
Just stop jumping around like an idiot trying to get a crossup body splash, especially if you know that your opponent can counter body splash. People are going to learn later on that you can just simply dash out of that normal or not have to contest it at all since it has low block stun. You're just simply going to have to learn how to have a strong ground game.
BUT I HAVE A JUMP CANCEL FOR FORWARD DASH!!! - Yes jump cancelling your dash is cool but it sucks when you get anti air supered for the lose if you don't pay attention to your opponents meter. Yes Doomsday is really fast but he can also lead you to be brain dead from time to time and this is the main reason why.
Statement 6: This so called "Armor"
Yes, it sucks. Doomsday can get interrupted mid animation whenever he gets hit. But you have to know that he CANNOT get grabbed (normal or command), CANNOT be knocked down, and that he CANNOT be combo'd for a whole 6 seconds. So that means, even on hit, they are minus. So just walk forward.
SERIOUSLY!!!! - Just walk forward and jump to your heart's content (in a smart way). You'll either be closer than you ever will be against a tough zoner, or be able to stay on the offensive even though you seem to be passive stopping mid combo just to activate your trait. It's a really unique type of armor and I wish for this to be utilized more.
Additional Notes:
- Connecting some safe block strings into Down 1 then throw is really strong since his grab range is really far. Thus creating more oki for him.
- Interactables will really help Doomsday out in terms of setting up for more damage so know what stages will help him out most.
- Reacting with anti air super, or whiff punish super is not practical since it's only about 40%. You're going to need to more than likely save your meter for Wagers to gain red life back and reset the momentum.
- Back 3 hits above his head.
- Comboing into backwards bounce cancel to get the stage transition is good depending on what the next set of interactables are.
- Never use Down 2 as an anti air. It's just bad. You can use it in combos to lift up your opponent a bit more mid juggle though.
Safe Block Strings:
Back 2, 3, 1
Forward 2, 3
1, 1, 2
2, 3, Down 1
Final Thoughts:
Doomsday all around is a really versatile character who's not really as OP as people think. He's just really easy to use at the moment until people start actually learning the characters and not the combos. He can get inside quite fairly, and his oki is hands down one of the best in the game. He's annoying to play against but will be more annoying to use once people figure him out. Other than that, just be prepared to use a lot of meter on trying to get inside and make sure you try to be a solid as possible and not rush down to hard or else you'll lose to a lot of the cast.
______________________________________________________
Hopefully this read was somewhat useful for those of you who want to pick up Doomsday or want to understand him a bit more. If there's anything I missed or am wrong about please by all means, reply to your hearts content. Other than that, I won't be able to test any Doomsday theory's online with you guys due to my poor internet speed. So if any of you live in the NorCal Bay Area that are willing to play, hit me up.
