Interview with Ari "Floe" Weintraub Discussing Killer Instinct, Injustice, MLG Anaheim, and more

[REDRUM]

 

[Zoidberg747]

I don't get the argument for patching being bad. If MK9 were never patched the game would be unbelievably stupid. Also would we really want Injustice to be all Superman and Black Adam's again?

Also as for patching, isn't SF4 basically on like their 6th or so patch? Or do they just not count that because you have to buy a new game each time?

I dont think number of patches was the problem, more the frequency of patches. NRS does all of its patches in 6 months or so, meaning there is a new patch every one or two months. SF usually doesnt get "patched" until a year or two after the last. This gives people time to explore the newly patched versions before another patch hits.

 

[Linkuei82]

Good players are good players. If REO picked up Ultra seriously he'd body top players. If LordKnight picked up Ultra seriously he'd body top players. If Sanford or Justin or PR Rog picked up Injustice they'd body top players.

It's a non-statement. Good players are good players, despite the game. Reactions, execution, reads, focus, mental strength, etc. All this stuff transfers over to other games.

The difference between Justin/Rog/etc. and top NRS players is the one element I didn't mention: passion.

If you don't have that you'll never be the best at this game.

I look up to REO and have no doubt he is the best overall MK player, but your saying he would bodied Infiltraion, Diago, and Jwong in a Capcom game? Must likely give them a damn good challenges, but bodied? Come on now...

 

[Art Killer B]

Can we stop that "Chris G was a tester" bullshit? Yeah, he was and was it because of that that he won CEO, UFGT and got third at EVO? Sure...

"He was a tester, therefore he got that advantage." Yeah, right.
Do you know who else were testers and haven't won a single major or get to top 8 for a year (or never) or achieved anything near to what Chris G has done? Pig, 16Bit (who was a full time NRS employee, wasn't he?), Konqrr, Krayzie, NerdJosh, Sabin, Check. Then we have CDjr who had early success, Tom Brady who won ECT and got to grand finals at Civil War but then stopped from getting top 8 at majors for a long time (yeah, I know about TotFC). But weren't they good fighting game players before MK9 was even released?
If Chris G achievements don't count because he was a tester, why do for NRS players who were? SoCal players had Krayzie tester with them and started playing Injustice when it got leaked 2 weeks earlier. By your logic, SoCal achievements shouldn't count either.

Also, what's with that "he plays fighting games all day"? Chris has played less than 1/10 of time than your average TYM member with 3000 online wins and offline scenes, yet he has had more success in MK9 than 90% of this community. Was he a tester for MK9 as well and that's why he won CEO 2011, got third at EVO 2011, beat the same Cat who beat Pig at FR and then at Texas Showdown, has beaten 16Bit more times than he has, beat PL at VxG and CDjr at ECT (and so on)? Yeah, sure.

Why is such a ball-buster accepting they're just exceptional players that can be good at everything they touch?
Was Justing Wong an MK9 tester to win PDP nationals? How many people who come from an MK background are good at multiple games? PL won EVO before MK9 came out, Tom Brady got top 8 at the same EVO. Slips has been a well-known Tekken player for over 7 years. So they're not.
REO is for sure a beast, but he hasn't competed in other fighting games to use that argument as a standpoint. And if you use that logic for REO, then you should for any top Capcom/Namco/Smash/etc. player too.
SonicFox is the only one I can name (he is a FG-prodigy), although I'm not sure where he started. And even he said on KTP that NRS games are soooo easy and simple. By the way, don't most people say he just wins because of how random he is? (TYM downplaying its own players...).

It's funny how our players complain when Capdudes option select their loses with "I don't even play this game" -even if it's true- and you all option select the lack of success in any non-NRS fighting game with "it's not my style", "I don't like the aesthetics of those games", "1 frame links are dumb", "that game is so random", yada yada.
Our players blamed Injustice for their rustiness in MK9...you can't play two games at the same time, but laugh on people who lose in their 3-8 side game? Pretty fair.

Before TTT2 and KI were released, a lot of people here said they were going to pick the game, place and body. What happened to them? *crickets*.

So, if you think you are as good as them, pick their game and start getting top 8, winning majors and beating them.
I heard Marvel is so easy, even a brain dead cat can win by mashing. Go get that free money, guys!

P.D. Don't get me wrong, I'll side for this community anytime. But there is a lot of nonsense going on.

 

[NoobHunter420]

I don't get the argument for patching being bad. If MK9 were never patched the game would be unbelievably stupid. Also would we really want Injustice to be all Superman and Black Adam's again?

Also as for patching, isn't SF4 basically on like their 6th or so patch? Or do they just not count that because you have to buy a new game each time?

Their issue is not the patching, the issue is that the constant patches prevent players from dissecting the game.

 

[NoobHunter420]

Chris G was a Tester for the game, he knew every characters strength weaknesses, combos, before 99.999999999% of the people that picked up the game.

Why don't people still know this? Selective memory?

Balrog did do well with Killer Frost in the beginning, no one is denying that he isn't a good fighting game player, but to claim him as a "god" of the fgc is a bit much. the way your hyping him, its almost as if he never used pre patch Killer frost.... oh wait he did.

lets keep in mind that chris g was bodying people that tested the game as well.
lets keep in mind that balrog made top 8 at evo with the same character that 16 bit couldn't.
lets also keep in mind that 16 bit tested the game for more than a year.
the INJ community has some amazing players(slips,kdz,tyrant and many others), but as far as raw talent capcom community is a few steps above.

 

[Sultan]

I look up to REO and have no doubt he is the best overall MK player, but your saying he would bodied Infiltraion, Diago, and Jwong in a Capcom game? Must likely give them a damn good challenges, but bodied? Come on now...

"Top Players" doesn't mean Daigo/Infiltration/JWong, it includes them but it's not restricted to them. And I use the word bodied insincerely, I don't literally mean he's body top players or the above --- I mean compete.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I dont think number of patches was the problem, more the frequency of patches. NRS does all of its patches in 6 months or so, meaning there is a new patch every one or two months. SF usually doesnt get "patched" until a year or two after the last. This gives people time to explore the newly patched versions before another patch hits.

Without those patches, the game would have died competitively long ago. People need to stop comparing this community to the Capcom community -- our game needed the help, so it got it.

Block infinites, out of control damage, giant invisible hitboxes, game glitches, supertracking interactibles of death, gunshots among us, lack of reliable d2.. That wasn't the game people wanted to play, and they wouldn't have stuck around for a year to keep spending money to support it.

Not to mention the calamity certain things created for the online community. NRS did what they had to do.

The thing that's annoying is that people talk about the game being patched a lot, but they don't mention that many of the patches only changed one or two things.. So wow, Doomsday has his splash hitbox slightly adjusted and now it's a brand new game? Have to re-learn all the characters? People just love to whine.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

I don't get the argument for patching being bad. If MK9 were never patched the game would be unbelievably stupid. Also would we really want Injustice to be all Superman and Black Adam's again?

Also as for patching, isn't SF4 basically on like their 6th or so patch? Or do they just not count that because you have to buy a new game each time?

Their patching ia yearly tho, that is the main difference.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Without those patches, the game would have died competitively long ago. People need to stop comparing this community to the Capcom community -- our game needed the help, so it got it.

Block infinites, out of control damage, giant invisible hitboxes, game glitches, supertracking interactibles of death, gunshots among us, lack of reliable d2.. That wasn't the game people wanted to play, and they wouldn't have stuck around for a year to keep spending money to support it.

Not to mention the calamity certain things created for the online community. NRS did what they had to do.

The thing that's annoying is that people talk about the game being patched a lot, but they don't mention that many of the patches only changed one or two things.. So wow, Doomsday has his splash hitbox slightly adjusted and now it's a brand new game? Have to re-learn all the characters? People just love to whine.

My biggest pet peeve of mass patching is theyll nerf a decent character like sub Zero in mk9, and buff a top tier like MMH, that is annoying. Our community becomes a big witch hunt and after every patch, a different character is attacked, happens every time

 

[haketh]

I don't get the argument for patching being bad. If MK9 were never patched the game would be unbelievably stupid. Also would we really want Injustice to be all Superman and Black Adam's again?

Also as for patching, isn't SF4 basically on like their 6th or so patch? Or do they just not count that because you have to buy a new game each time?

For a ton of us older palyers it's not so much the patching but the number of and frequency, to alot of us it happens way to fast.

 

[PND_Mustard]

Reading all this MK talk, and going through the thread, really makes me wanna go to MLG D:

 

[Chakk dizzle]

My biggest pet peeve of mass patching is theyll nerf a decent character like sub Zero in mk9, and buff a top tier like MMH, that is annoying. Our community becomes a big witch hunt and after every patch, a different character is attacked, happens every time

Good post.

Also I think most of us agree that yes, patching was necessary. However, there were too many, too fast. That's all. You have to give a game some time to develop, ESPECIALLY after a change.

 

[Vulcan Hades]

Without those patches, the game would have died competitively long ago. People need to stop comparing this community to the Capcom community -- our game needed the help, so it got it.

I'm not convinced "constant rebalancing" was necessary. SSF4 and SFxT had infinites and game breaking glitches before. They simply fixed those within a month of release but left the balance unchanged for at least 6-12 months before the first balance update.

Constant rebalancing is also the reason why guys like Aris stopped playing. It's just hard to keep up with a secondary game that keeps changing for no real reason. I mean did anyone else aside from Aquaman, Superman and Black Adam really needed to get nerfed? (not counting glitches and infinites as nerfs)

 

[Big Pampering]

The complaint about constant patching is kind of bullshit talk. If you can't even take a little time to test a few changes within the game then youre not going to place anyway. If you want to do well in a new game youre going to have to put time into the game regardless of patches. LBSH a lot of these other top fg players often just want to abuse the broken shit in the game early on and when the chips are out they can't stand on their own feet. This is already the second NRS game and they have never been able to place after half a year into the games lifespan. Rico and KDZ are the only ones and they aren't even pure capcom players, they are godlike, they put in the time and even when the broken shit got removed they still stayed with the game, that is dedication. If you don't have the dedication then gtfo, you could be Daigo but nobody gives a fuck when youre not going to put time in and try to compete, otherwise its all just baseless shitttalk especially from a capcom player who isnt even relevant anymore.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

I'm not convinced "constant rebalancing" was necessary. SSF4 and SFxT had infinites and game breaking glitches before. They simply fixed those within a month of release but left the balance unchanged for at least 6-12 months before the first balance update.

Constant rebalancing is also the reason why guys like Aris stopped playing. It's just hard to keep up with a secondary game that keeps changing for no real reason. I mean did anyone else aside from Aquaman, Superman and Black Adam really needed to get nerfed? (not counting glitches and infinites as nerfs)

But you're worrying about a few people dropping IGAU as their secondary game, when far more people would have dropped Injustice as their *primary* game were certain issues not fixed. 12 months of f23 and divekicks + characters with little fighting chance = dead competitive game.

I don't understand the logic of letting a game die for the sake of not fixing it.

People keep advocating the merits of 'the Capcom approach', but if you follow Capcom you'll know that a late patch did not totally revive SFxT's reputation as a marquee competitive title since it was left with major issues for so long. So if SFxT doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, I'm not sure why people think Injustice would have.

 

[Scoot Magee]

This is coming from a person that doesn't consider himself as a player of a certain brand but as a fighting game player in general.

Isn't it kind of hard to compare talent from 2 totally different games? I think most fighting game players, especially those still around from before Street Fighter 4 blew up the fighting game scene have backgrounds from all types of fighting games. I've seen top players in 1 game not do as well in another and vice versa.

In the end if Capcom players don't enjoy NRS games they probably won't do well in them. The same goes for NRS players. Besides that there's way too many factors to even compare imo.

 

[iShinnok03]

But you're worrying about a few people dropping IGAU as their secondary game, when far more people would have dropped Injustice as their *primary* game were certain issues not fixed. 12 months of f23 and divekicks + characters with little fighting chance = dead competitive game.

I don't understand the logic of letting a game die for the sake of not fixing it.

People keep advocating the merits of 'the Capcom approach', but if you follow Capcom you'll know that a late patch did not totally revive SFxT's reputation as a marquee competitive title since it was left with major issues for so long. So if SFxT doesn't get the benefit of the doubt, I'm not sure why people think Injustice would have.

Waiting for too long is about as bad as constant patching. If I'm not mistaken Superman and Black Adam were truly nerfed in the last patch, and how many patches were before that? I think NRS should take their time and see what are the important things to patch in the game, abusable stuff nerfed, useless stuff buffed, etc, and THEN release a patch, it wouldn't take a whole year and it also wouldn't cluster the game with patches.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Waiting for too long is about as bad as constant patching. If I'm not mistaken Superman and Black Adam were truly nerfed in the last patch, and how many patches were before that? I think NRS should take their time and see what are the important things to patch in the game, abusable stuff nerfed, useless stuff buffed, etc, and THEN release a patch, it wouldn't take a whole year and it also wouldn't cluster the game with patches.

The problem was that this game was built on the foundation of being over the top/semi-broken, rather than on being solid/uniform. Going in, that's how the designers wanted the game to be. It was risky, and once it was released 'into the wild', there were some things that needed to be toned down immediately or risk losing a large part of the game's audience.

This is different from a game like KI, which was intended to be solid and fairly uniform at the base. KI had bugs that needed to be fixed, but overall the game balance is in a state where it can be left more or less alone for a while. SF is also a different type of game and has the benefit of a ton of location testing, Arcade releases, etc. and about 20 years of continuous competitive legacy.

When your fish tank is leaking, you have to fix the holes, or all the water leaves and the fish die. The scene was leaking, and it's only because NRS stepped in when they did that things were kept afloat.

 

[THTB]

This argument of what group of players is better is stupid, when time and time again, it's been shown that much of it is relevant to what games you actually play religiously. There's only really a small number of players that we can say with certainty would dominate us from the Capcom side. And you know what? Those same players are generally absurd players at other games (Hell, Chris G is a fucking freak at gaming in general).

We've had a number of notable players from other communities come to MK9 and Injustice and play it just as much as we do. Were they undefeatable? You would know this answer if you payed attention. FFS, Justin came over to MK9 and lost to Goldfish. I'm not knocking you, @Goldy, ILU <3...but you get what I'm saying.

Shit, we can go back to when MK9 first came out. Guess who sent the guy in this interview to losers in the first tournament...?

(Hint hint, it begins with a Chomp, and ends with a Hiss )

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

The problem is that this game was built on the foundation of being over the top/semi-broken, rather than on being solid/uniform. Going in, that's how the designers wanted the game to be. It was risky, and once it was released 'into the wild', there were some things that needed to be toned down immediately or risk losing a large part of the game's audience.

This is different from a game like KI, which was intended to be solid at the base. KI had bugs that needed to be fixed, but overall the game balance is in a state where it can be left more or less alone for a while. SF is also a different type of game and has the benefit of a ton of location testing, Arcade releases, etc. and about 20 years of continuous competitive legacy.

When your fish tank is leaking, you have to fix the holes, or all the water leaves and the fish die. The scene was leaking, and it's only because NRS stepped in when they did that things were kept afloat.

better recommendation, nrs should get the game they make more on point when it comes out, then they wont have to patch it so many times or, stop with da witch hunt patching.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

better recommendation, nrs should get the game they make more on point when it comes out, then they wont have to patch it so many times or, stop with da witch hunt patching.

It's hard to do with the type of games they like to make. The target is "out of control, over the top, crazy/insane". It does well for their target audience because that's what MK was based on in the first place.

However, there are so many variables in a game like that that it's hard to get everything right and iron them all out 'in the lab'. There's just too much going on, and things are too crazy. Plus you're talking about a brand new game -- it's not like SF2/Super/Turbo ended up perfectly balanced when it came out. The formula has been refined over years.

If they stick with the Injustice core and just improve on it heading into new games, it'll be a little easier to balance going forward. But a new experimental game with new constraints, moves, movement, play styles, type of blocking etc. is extremely hard to nail on the first shot.

 

[Perfect Legend]

My roots aren't MK9 stop talking as such. I come from DOA and migrated to playing everything else from that.

Also I played and did very well in SF4 before MK9 even released, getting top 8/16s at majors and triple ocving big names in team tournaments. I was actually 3 matches away from top 8 in 2011 where I won MK9 lol.

The Year I won DOA back in 2006 I was 1 match away from making top 8 in Tekken 5 lol.

After Mk9 released I literally stopped playing SF4 and then AE 2012 released sooo I'm playing catch up.

I've been competing far longer than this community has existed. Also all of the players you guys mentioned on "team sf" I have beaten all of them in tournament in different games including Street Fighter, Tekken, Injustice and Mortal Kombat.

Anyway before you guys debate peoples legitimacy look up their history.

Chris G is a great player and should get all the props for how good he was doing in Injustice. Only reason he isn't doing great now is cause I'm sure he hasn't brushed up on the latest patches and of course DLC.

Justin Wong, Floe etc all those guys should not be underestimated. They have been playing fighting games for just as long or more than me and have proved their consistency for a long time.

If you become good at a game no matter the time or the era you can become good at another. However depending on circumstances is if it will be difficult or not to achieve top player status.

 

[Goldi]

I didn't just beat Justin Wong, I beat Justin Wong with Jade <3

 

[THTB]

I didn't just beat Justin Wong, I beat Justin Wong with Jade <3

Jade top 5?