Interview with Ari "Floe" Weintraub Discussing Killer Instinct, Injustice, MLG Anaheim, and more

[Eric The Scruffy]

Vanilla Sagat says hi.

Only time I was ever passable at SF4, lol.

 

[DarthArma]

I forgot about them tbh but it still makes no sense why this guy has a interview front-paged like his some kind of celebrity essentially talking about divisions within an already small gaming community. It's a recent interview yet everyone he mentioned doesn't even play the game and then his reason for not playing Injustice is that he is unable to adapt to patches like please..

DansGame

 

[iShinnok03]

Vanilla Sagat says hi.

If we compare SF4 to NRS' game at that time (MKvsDCU), Vanilla Sagat would seem extremely balanced lol.

 

[Tony at Home]

It's not just about execution though, is also about effectiveness. There's a reason Injustice was boo'd at EVO, when something as simple and basic as f23 breath, and laser mixups execution wise is so easy but so hard to deal with then there's a problem. Remember when Superman had full bar? You could just hope the Superman player messed up and if you made a single mistake with 38% or LESS you were as good as dead, almost half life bar with the press of 2 buttons, do you call that skill?

There's a difference- NRS actually recognized that as a problem and corrected it. Balance problems in NRS games are just that- problems.

In Street Fighter, arbitrarily-high execution barriers aren't even considered a problem, they consider it a positive feature.

There's no denying there's a huge culture of worshiping arbitray execution barriers in Capcom games.

In Injustice, if you want to use Street Fighter controls, you can turn them on.

In SFxT if you use an easy input gem (which turns controlls into MK-style) you receive a PENALTY FOR DOING SO.

 

[iShinnok03]

There's a difference- NRS actually recognized that as a problem and corrected it. Balance problems in NRS games are just that- problems.

In Street Fighter, arbitrarily-high execution barriers aren't even considered a problem, they consider it a positive feature.

There's no denying there's a huge culture of worshiping arbitray execution barriers in Capcom games.

In Injustice, if you want to use Street Fighter controls, you can turn them on.

In SFxT if you use an easy input gem (which turns controlls into MK-style) you receive a PENALTY FOR DOING SO.

I actually commend NRS for making the inputs easier. I just dislike the lack of common sense they apply to the game itself, or the bullshit in other words.

 

[Sultan]

There's a difference- NRS actually recognized that as a problem and corrected it. Balance problems in NRS games are just that- problems.

In Street Fighter, arbitrarily-high execution barriers aren't even considered a problem, they consider it a positive feature.

There's no denying there's a huge culture of worshiping arbitray execution barriers in Capcom games.

In Injustice, if you want to use Street Fighter controls, you can turn them on.

In SFxT if you use an easy input gem (which turns controlls into MK-style) you receive a PENALTY FOR DOING SO.

The thing about execution that perplexes me is that it seems to be a person to person thing. Like, I'm godly at 1-frame links. I don't plink, I can just do it, and I can't explain why. The EASIEST games for me to play are ST/HDR, CvS2, and KoF13. Games a lot of people just can't get into because everything has to be precise... My execution is flawless in those games, but in games like SF4, Injustice or UMvC3 I drop shit constantly.

So when I hear someone say Injustice is easy to play and KoF13 is hard I just don't understand. Command shortcuts and leniency ruins me, lol.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

It's so you can focus on fighting your opponent, instead of fighting your controller's d-pad

idk man when im playin this game im always fighting the command interperator. this games input reader is mad muddy

 

[RM Jonnitti]

also to anyone saying capcom has high execution barriers

lern2plink

 

[Euphoric]

Dizzy is currently a great KI player and placed top 8 at Final Round. That's just current, Slips is of course one of the best Tekken players of all time.

Meant strong NRS origins, that's why I didn't really mention Sonic Fox or others. Dizzy started of with Guilty Gear no? Hence his name?

All the people who are good at multiple fighters origins were not predominately NRS games, aside from maybe LI Joe and REO. But REO is ChrisG so, he doesn't count. And if you want to count REO, there's not many others I can think of.

I am not trying to shit on the NRS community, I am saying, if Capcom players can pick up our games and other FGs for money and early dominance, when they clearly don't like the style of NRS games, than why cannot NRS players pick up other fighters for early dominance and money (Capcom Cup). It's the logical thing to do. But they don't, because it's much tougher. This is an ego bruiser because I am shit at FGs and before anyone brings up my skills, it's just directed to all the talented players that can flourish other places to, it's just they don't, and there's a reason. It's harder.

 

[16 Bit]

Meant strong NRS origins, that's why I didn't really mention Sonic Fox or others. Dizzy started of with Guilty Gear no? Hence his name?

All the people who are good at multiple fighters origins were not predominately NRS games, aside from maybe LI Joe and REO. But REO is ChrisG so, he doesn't count. And if you want to count REO.

No, Dizzy's name is not from Guilty Gear. His first real FG was MK.


Also can we stop saying "NRS games" like they're the same? They're all different. MK is radically different each game. MK9 and UMK3 and Injustice are all entirely different games. There's almost no difference between being good at those games and being good at one NRS game and one Namco game or whatever.

 

[Euphoric]

No, Dizzy's name is not from Guilty Gear. His first real FG was MK.


Also can we stop saying "NRS games" like they're the same? They're all different. MK is radically different each game. MK9 and
at one NRS game and one Namco game or whatever.

Maybe they should have a consistent engine xD.

They're all different, still easy compared to Capcom games and other Fighters at highest level.

Different don't mean the games are not still easy. That's the common denominator.

 

[EGP Wonder_Chef]

if the argument is that justin and pr rog are better than NRS players than they kind of are lol (which I dont like saying)

Im Not saying all of capcom is better than nrs players (not at all) ... But just look at what Rog did at EVO.. Top 8 and there is no way in HELL he played the game more than guys like @GGA 16 Bit or @EGP Wonder_Chef (i mean the amount of hours he spent compared to just these guys im mentioning isnt even comparable. The "Time spent playing" differential is gigantic).

Actually I heard that he was playing a lot of Injustice before Evo.

I mean when you think about it he literally gets to play fighting games all day (he was living at the fgtv house then I think, not sure about now) so if he even dedicates 1/10 of his time to playing Injustice, that's a lot of time invested compared to how much normal people can play. Not to mention playing any fighting game makes you better overall at fighting games.

I mean if you go back and watch my match with him, you can see that he knows what he's doing. He does stuff like slide on reaction to beat out B13 xx Rocket, or when I jumped to use a TV on him he dashed under and D2d me, etc.

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

It's not even that they're capcom players. They're just amazing players in general. There's a reason they all dominate KI. Fucking TYM is so quick to hate on something that they don't even look at the situation logically. Obviously if you dedicate yourself to the game and learn it you can beat them, an example being Grimmz. But you have to be really good at your game.

 

[KH_Captain]

If capcom players say they are going to beat NRS players then they lose. All they're going to do is say the game is bad and it sucks and blame it on the game instead of the fact that they got beat plain and simple. IMO it's already been proven that top Capcom players are no better than top NRS players

 

[Chongo]

REO is great, I think he's probably the best NRS games player there is. His legacy in MK9 is the greatest, etc. (Yes I think he was and is better than PL). That said I have to disagree, I think the street fighter series is much more technical and difficult to master than NRS games. I'll concede that I think capcom players are mistaken with how easily they think they can pick up Injustice because as has been stated by others there are a ton of match ups and variables that need to be learned and memorized. But at the end of the day that's all you need to do, from an execution and mastery stand point I think NRS games pale in comparison to capcom games in terms of difficulty. PL has been delving into Capcom games, and gets bodied most of the time by mid tier players. As opposed to Chris G who has historically come into NRS games and placed top 8 (With lower tier characters like Green Arrow and Reptile).

All of that said having a low execution barrier and skill cap is not a bad thing. NRS games are more approachable to new players which is great as it just serves to feed a stronger population (Now if NRS could just release a title with decent netcode).

SSBM has arguably the highest execution level in the fighting games out now and REO has bodied people with Falco

 

[16 Bit]

It's funny that for a game considered "easy" like MK the results were extremely consistent. I placed top 8 at nearly every tournament I entered for 3 years and only a very small group of players could ever beat my Kitana. Why is that if the game is so easy? I can tell you for a fact that there are probably only around 15 players in the world that were good enough at the MK9 system to do what it took to deal with my play style. I don't see anyone in this thread talking about how easy MK9 was to play that could actually counter poke at the highest level for example.

 

[Sultan]

Maybe they should have a consistent engine xD.

They're all different, still easy compared to Capcom games and other Fighters at highest level.

Different don't mean the games are not still easy. That's the common denominator.

They're not easier - I play Capcom games and I play NRS games and I play SNK games. No game is considerably easier than the next. This game is young, this scene itself is young - it seems like most of the Injustice scene is newcomers and carry-overs from MK9 - that's toddler age compared to the Capcom scene, so I get why most NRS guys think this stuff, but it just doesn't work that way.

When you play enough fighters for enough time their execution barriers all sort of feel about the same, imo. It took me 2-3 months to figure this game out. My first game, 3S, took me 9 months to figure out. ST took me 3 months or so. Etc.

If this game has the blessing of lasting 4-5 years, it'll be obvious to everyone how deep this game really is. There is so much high execution tech / option selects / strategies in this game that most players haven't even scratched the surface yet - not because it isn't good, it's because the scene hasn't caught up to the underlying meta game yet (eg, nobody is performing well enough to force this out of players).

Fighting games are very Darwinian - as competition grows, the depth of the game grows. This is obviously already happening, the Injustice of EVO is dead and gone: meta-wise and literally - certain things are solidifying. Something news in the air.

For example: the last KTP podcast highlighted certain trends, notably that each scene is starting to "solidify" - the cream is rising to the top. In the West it's Theo's Aquaman, in the East it's Jupiter's MMH, in the South it's Pig's Zod and in the Midwest it's Max's Bane. These characters happen to be top tiers and their players are pushing their character harder than anyone right now. They also have notably large scenes (a bigger pool means bigger sharks).

The reason Chris G or Rog or Justin or whoever can turn on this game and body people is because of FUNDAMENTALS. Fundamentals pierce through gimmicks and bullshit and everything else. And another thing about these guys: you have to stop calling them Capcom guys. They all compete in multiple games. They're not bound as Capcom players who flirt with other genres - they're fighting game guys who play everything. Justin is good at fighters you've never heard of.

It's not the game. It's the scene. I don't know why this is so hard to accept. It's like the negativity projected on the NRS scene has created some sort of inferiority complex. Lol. Much Freudian.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

It's funny that for a game considered "easy" like MK the results were extremely consistent. I placed top 8 at nearly every tournament I entered for 3 years and only a very small group of players could ever beat my Kitana. Why is that if the game is so easy? I can tell you for a fact that there are probably only around 15 players in the world that were good enough at the MK9 system to do what it took to deal with my play style. I don't see anyone in this thread talking about how easy MK9 was to play that could actually counter poke at the highest level for example.

Agreed, we werent playing mk at the highest lvl at all. Ppl still werent blowing up cross ups with standing 1s or 2s and u still can get away wid d1 cutter vs ppl

 

[Jeffreys]

I don't understand why we are even talking about this, when injustice FIRST came out, neither Justin Wong or Floe even won a local in this game, granted they played against Tyrant (all hail tyrant) but it just goes to show that the only chance that they have to win even a local was when the game first came out and they couldn't even manage that.

Don't take this the wrong way, I know both Jwong and Floe are really great fighting game players, but this conceited aura means nothing to me if they can't win in a "lesser skilled" scene like the NRS community. Actually all things considered we should give props to CD JR who had to deal with the "unskilled" NRS scene and still manages to do extremely well in Killer Instinct with the other Capcom guys.

 

[NoobHunter420]

the argument behind capcom players behind superior to INJ players is quite simple.
they been making top 8/winning injustice majors w/o practicing the game as hard as their main game.
do you think any INJ players could place top 8 a capcom game w/o practicing in regular basis?
look at chris G, he was bodying every1 while every1 struggled to learn the game.
balrog made top 8 at evo and a few other majors with nothing more than fundamentals.
ask yourself, what would happen if injustice was their main game.
I see balrog and chris G play and their reads/blocking is in another level.
this is not saying that capcom players are better than nrs players, the gods of the fgc happen to like capcom games.

 

[Jeffreys]

the argument behind capcom players behind superior to INJ players is quite simple.
they been making top 8/winning injustice majors w/o practicing the game as hard as their main game.
do you think any INJ players could place top 8 a capcom game w/o practicing in regular basis?
look at chris G, he was bodying every1 while every1 struggled to learn the game.
balrog made top 8 at evo and a few other majors with nothing more than fundamentals.
ask yourself, what would happen if injustice was their main game.
I see balrog and chris G play and their reads/blocking is in another level.
this is not saying that capcom players are better than nrs players, the gods of the fgc happen to like capcom games.

Chris G was a Tester for the game, he knew every characters strength weaknesses, combos, before 99.999999999% of the people that picked up the game.

Why don't people still know this? Selective memory?

Balrog did do well with Killer Frost in the beginning, no one is denying that he isn't a good fighting game player, but to claim him as a "god" of the fgc is a bit much. the way your hyping him, its almost as if he never used pre patch Killer frost.... oh wait he did.

 

[Eric The Scruffy]

the argument behind capcom players behind superior to INJ players is quite simple.
they been making top 8/winning injustice majors w/o practicing the game as hard as their main game.

Uh....no they haven't.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Chris G was a Tester for the game, he knew every characters strength weaknesses, combos, before 99.999999999% of the people that picked up the game.

Why don't people still know this? Selective memory?

Balrog did do well with Killer Frost in the beginning, no one is denying that he isn't a good fighting game player, but to claim him as a "god" of the fgc is a bit much. the way your hyping him, its almost as if he never used pre patch Killer frost.... oh wait he did.

The testers didnt know nearly as much as people think they do. By the time the game was public there were already enough changes to make it a different game, then factor in all the patches etc. Chris G won because of his fundamentals, anyone who watched him play would realize that.

And to imply that PR Rog only one because he played pre-patch Killer Frost is bull.shit. He never went for the reset into 50/50 or trait shenanigans that made her broken at the time. He always did the crossover into a mixup iirc. The main reason he managed to win was because, like Chris G, he had fundamentals. He could anti-air, whiff punish, bait, play good defense. God knows what he could have done had he learned optimal KF tech.

There are some players that can be successful in multiple games. Capcom has a lot more because they have the oldest scene, with guys like J Wong, PR Rog, and Chris G(Capcom games are his main games, he is Capcom, deal with it). From NRS you have guys like PL, SonicFox, and CD Jr. There were some in the SC community but I cant remember, @jonniti might know. But point is most communities have people that are simply very good at fighting games, so to argue over "who is better" is pointless.

 

[GGA Jeremiah]

I don't get the argument for patching being bad. If MK9 were never patched the game would be unbelievably stupid. Also would we really want Injustice to be all Superman and Black Adam's again?

Also as for patching, isn't SF4 basically on like their 6th or so patch? Or do they just not count that because you have to buy a new game each time?

 

[REDRUM]

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