INJUSTICE 2 BASE STATS, COMBO DUMMY PICKS AND MATH

[Lokheit]

I've listed every character base stats in this sheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17GSoCQLdXIl38s36rvyCwSqZ7u1oZMpV55_QVsKvUFs


Offensive stats are anecdotal as each move's damage also affects the offensive power of a character (for example Black Adam's overal damage is impressive and all characters have the same offensive points), but I think this list is interesting to help with the recent discussion about combo standards.

It might be easier than what we thought:

All characters (except Darkseid who is an outlier) have the same amount of Offensive Stat Points (2200) and Defensive Stat Points (1950). All of them including Darkseid have a total of 4150 Stat Points.

Characters (excluding Darkseid) are divided into 3 groups of Defensive Stats distributions:

- Characters with 1000 Defense and 950 Health (10 characters):

Aquaman, Black Adam, Brainiac, Cyborg, Firestorm, Green Lantern, Supergirl, Superman, Swamp Thing, Wonder Woman.

- Characters with 950 Defense and 1000 Health (5 characters):

Black Canary, Blue Beetle, Cheetah, Flash and Robin.

- Characters with 900 Defense and 1050 Health (13 characters):

Atrocitus, Bane, Batman, Captain Cold, Catwoman, Deadshot, Doctor Fate, Gorilla Grodd, Green Arrow, Harley Quinn, Joker, Poison Ivy and Scarecrow.

- Darkseid as an outlier with 800 Defense and 1100 Health.


I need to check the game's damage formula (as soon as it releases here in Europe I will do it) but if damage is directly divided by Defense, then we could just check combo damage with 1000 Def characters, and then divide it by 0.95, 0.9 or 0.8 to get the combo damage for any other character without needing to repeat the combos on them.

I also want to point out that if that's how Defense works, then characters with 1000 and 950 Defense are at a slight advantage over the rest of the cast, because then the amount of unmodified incoming damage that a character could resist would be equal to Defense * Health meaning that the better results would come from the most balanced distributions:

Characters with 1000 Def an 950 HP get a damage resist coeficient of 950K

Characters with 950 Def and 1000 HP get the same 950K coeficient.

Characters with 900 Def and 1050 HP get 945K.

Darkseid with less total points and the most unbalanced distribution gets just 880K.


Of course this last point is if Defense is a direct divisor of damage and the formula isn't more complex than that, but in most mathematical models for Defense and Health a balanced distribution will get the best results.

 

[Swindle]

I've listed every character base stats in this sheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17GSoCQLdXIl38s36rvyCwSqZ7u1oZMpV55_QVsKvUFs


Offensive stats are anecdotal as each move's damage also affects the offensive power of a character (for example Black Adam's overal damage is impressive and all characters have the same offensive points), but I think this list is interesting to help with the recent discussion about combo standards.

It might be easier than what we thought:

All characters (except Darkseid who is an outlier) have the same amount of Offensive Stat Points (2200) and Defensive Stat Points (1950). All of them including Darkseid have a total of 4150 Stat Points.

Characters (excluding Darkseid) are divided into 3 groups of Defensive Stats distributions:

- Characters with 1000 Defense and 950 Health (10 characters):

Aquaman, Black Adam, Brainiac, Cyborg, Firestorm, Green Lantern, Supergirl, Superman, Swamp Thing, Wonder Woman.

- Characters with 950 Defense and 1000 Health (5 characters):

Black Canary, Blue Beetle, Cheetah, Flash and Robin.

- Characters with 900 Defense and 1050 Health (13 characters):

Atrocitus, Bane, Batman, Captain Cold, Catwoman, Deadshot, Doctor Fate, Gorilla Grodd, Green Arrow, Harley Quinn, Joker, Poison Ivy and Scarecrow.

- Darkseid as an outlier with 800 Defense and 1100 Health.


I need to check the game's damage formula (as soon as it releases here in Europe I will do it) but if damage is directly divided by Defense, then we could just check combo damage with 1000 Def characters, and then divide it by 0.95, 0.9 or 0.8 to get the combo damage for any other character without needing to repeat the combos on them.

I also want to point out that if that's how Defense works, then characters with 1000 and 950 Defense are at a slight advantage over the rest of the cast, because then the amount of unmodified incoming damage that a character could resist would be equal to Defense * Health meaning that the better results would come from the most balanced distributions:

Characters with 1000 Def an 950 HP get a damage resist coeficient of 950K

Characters with 950 Def and 1000 HP get the same 950K coeficient.

Characters with 900 Def and 1050 HP get 945K.

Darkseid with less total points and the most unbalanced distribution gets just 880K.


Of course this last point is if Defense is a direct divisor of damage and the formula isn't more complex than that, but in most mathematical models for Defense and Health a balanced distribution will get the best results.

This post needs tits. Then it will have three of my favorite things.

 

[KidVanDal]

This post needs tits. Then it will have three of my favorite things.

There's ass in this post?

 

[Swindle]

There's ass in this post?

There is now, Kid. There is now.

 

[Lokheit]

I figured out I didn't need to wait to get the game with existing footage showing real damage against multiple characters and knowing their defense values.

I've found something weird about the way defense modifies incoming damage. I took Deadshot's regular wrist shot from Sonic's stream (there are a lot of samples lol) as a base to compare against known defensive values:

- Against all 1000 defense characters it deals 66 damage.

- Against all 900 defense characters it deals 73.33 damage (which is 66/0.9, leading me to believe that's how the formula works).

- Against all characters with 950 defense though, it deals 68.28 (less than expected) and against Darkseid and his 800 defense it deals 86.09 (a lot more than expected). This seems to indicate a formula following a curve rather than a line, but that keeps 1000 as 1/1 and 900 as a 1/0.9. BRB I'm going to try to figure this out.

EDIT:

So far it's a bit hard to find good groups of samples (same attack, no gear, characters from the 4 Def groups) but it looks like no matter the attacker offensive values this is the way damage is modified, I will investigate more about the formula when I can lab by myself rather than looking at youtube videos and twitch stream archives.

- 1000 Defense (base damage)

- 950 Defense (damage/0.966period...)

- 900 Defense (damage/0.9)

- 800 Defense (damage/0.766period...)


On a similar topic, it looks like offensive values increase base damage from moves on a curve too (for example characters with 1150 ABL seem to multiply the base value of their special moves by 1.1 instead of 1.15).

 

[MKF30]

Thanks for the post, have to get used to all these stats, numbers etc lol

 

[jmt]

Can you not play in practice mode with equal level characters?

 

[DDutchguy]

So let's say my combo does 30% on a 1000 defense character, then it will do 30/0.766 = 39.16% on an 800 defense character (Darkseid).

In combo threads, should we list this combo as doing 30-39% damage to sorta cover all defense values?

 

[Tanno]

Fuck. If I even find a swaggy combo here, I'll have to implement all of this shit there. And I'll have to create a board here with all those differences between these basic stats. :S

 

[Pterodactyl]

I wonder why they made Darkseid's defense especially shitty compared to everyone else.

 

[Tanno]

I wonder why they made Darkseid's defense especially shitty compared to everyone else.

Because he's too OP with attack and health.

 

[Lokheit]

Ok, I'm starting to think that the values I took are from Lvl 1 characters and the stats applied in ranked are for Lvl 20 characters (I don't have the game yet and I used a youtube video showing the full roster to get the values).

The damage values I took on the previous post would make sense as a linear progression if defense values were 1500, 1450, 1350 and 1150, I will update the opening post tomorrow with the Lvl 20 values and I'll see if this is right (it makes a lot more sense that defense works like this rather than a weird curve).

 

[Tanno]

The damage values I took on the previous post would make sense as a linear progression if defense values were 1500, 1450, 1350 and 1150, I will update the opening post tomorrow with the Lvl 20 values and I'll see if this is right (it makes a lot more sense that defense works like this rather than a weird curve).

Can you make a comparison panel between those levels till the max lvl?

 

[Juggs]

Ok, I'm starting to think that the values I took are from Lvl 1 characters and the stats applied in ranked are for Lvl 20 characters (I don't have the game yet and I used a youtube video showing the full roster to get the values).

The damage values I took on the previous post would make sense as a linear progression if defense values were 1500, 1450, 1350 and 1150, I will update the opening post tomorrow with the Lvl 20 values and I'll see if this is right (it makes a lot more sense that defense works like this rather than a weird curve).

Yes, in competitive/tournament mode (ranked) the characters are at level 20. So you'll need to do the stats based off of that.