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Match-up Discussion Indecisive's Living MU Chart

Indecisive

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
OMG 16 Bit is Talking In my MU chart. I feel so hollywood. But on a series note thanks for the input 16 Bit, Starcharger, and Chef. Also Starcharger. You mention that Jump Back 2 when im in the corner. You do realize that if you jump back then we probably are not going to wake up. Also im pretty sure CW cant punish B2 Torpedo. Also B2 only wiffs if you do it right in front of her. Which has highest level is not going to happen
 
KH StarCharger

KH StarCharger

Noob
EGP Wonder_Chef said:
Catwoman can't full combo punish a close torpedo, in fact I don't thinks he can punish it at all. That's one of the best things about the matchup.

I think this matchup is evenish. Both have high damage, good oki, obnoxious air games, and good mixups.

Catwoman's upside is that her footsies are better, but Shazam has an easier time getting out of oki situations.
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Standing 1 buddy. Standing 1 if done frame by frame on block, will land her an airborne combo. Agreed on the rest of your post.
 
KH StarCharger

KH StarCharger

Noob
Indecisive said:
OMG 16 Bit is Talking In my MU chart. I feel so hollywood. But on a series note thanks for the input 16 Bit, Starcharger, and Chef. Also Starcharger. You mention that Jump Back 2 when im in the corner. You do realize that if you jump back then we probably are not going to wake up. Also im pretty sure CW cant punish B2 Torpedo. Also B2 only wiffs if you do it right in front of her. Which has highest level is not going to happen
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I have to scout that bud. If I scout a wake up teleport, you are in deep shit. B2 torpedo I think is safe overall. any other torpedo is in trouble if timed right with a stand 1. Agreed on the B2. It's such a funny thing that happens from time to time. But Digit has whiffed that move on me plenty (and he's paid a heavy price for it every time) so don't be so sure.
 
Indecisive

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
KH StarCharger said:
I have to scout that bud. If I scout a wake up teleport, you are in deep shit. B2 torpedo I think is safe overall. any other torpedo is in trouble if timed right with a stand 1. Agreed on the B2. It's such a funny thing that happens from time to time. But Digit has whiffed that move on me plenty (and he's paid a heavy price for it every time) so don't be so sure.
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Not Every Shazam has to WU Teleport. :p
 
16 Bit

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
KH StarCharger said:
I have to scout that bud. If I scout a wake up teleport, you are in deep shit. B2 torpedo I think is safe overall. any other torpedo is in trouble if timed right with a stand 1. Agreed on the B2. It's such a funny thing that happens from time to time. But Digit has whiffed that move on me plenty (and he's paid a heavy price for it every time) so don't be so sure.
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You can't punish a wakeup teleport with Cat Dash on reaction. It's a guess and you lose as much as you would have gained if you're wrong.

Catwoman has no fully invincible wakeup attack without trait, which itself is punishable. So her wakeup game is significantly worse than his. I don't understand why the wakeup game scenario would make it a match in her favor.
 
KH StarCharger

KH StarCharger

Noob
GGA 16 Bit said:
You can't punish a wakeup teleport with Cat Dash on reaction. It's a guess and you lose as much as you would have gained if you're wrong.

Catwoman has no fully invincible wakeup attack without trait, which itself is punishable. So her wakeup game is significantly worse than his. I don't understand why the wakeup game scenario would make it a match in her favor.
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I never said anything about her wake ups though and I agree with your post (minus you saying her trait is punishable and that the WU scenario makes the MU in her favor.) This MU is all about reads from what I've gathered. What I'm saying is that the right reads have to be made. This is all from Personal experience and not theory.
 
16 Bit

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
Premium Supporter
NetherRealm Studios
KH StarCharger said:
I never said anything about her wake ups though and I agree with your post (minus you saying her trait is punishable and that the WU scenario makes the MU in her favor.) This MU is all about reads from what I've gathered. What I'm saying is that the right reads have to be made. This is all from Personal experience and not theory.
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You said the match is her favor(edit: unless you mean bad news means it's 5-5?) and one of the reasons was her oki on him. I am saying his oki on her is as good if not better. You brought up her stuffing his wakeup as an example, which he does to her. His wakeup attacks are better than hers.

He can punish her wakeup trait with neutral jump 2.
 
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Indecisive

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
GGA 16 Bit said:
You said the match is her favor and one of the reasons was her oki on him. I am saying his oki on her is as good if not better. You brought up her stuffing his wakeup as an example, which he does to her. His wakeup attacks are better than hers.

He can punish her wakeup trait with neutral jump 2.
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Really now. Well then Thanks for letting me know that last part.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Someone said something about Bane so I'm making my appearance.
Ok? Ok.
5-5, honestly that's my guess on it all. Any good Shazam v Bane match is going to come down to the last few moments or hits, since neither side can reliably pressure the other one due to teleports/armor, and both sides do somewhat comparable damage and have good mobility (with Banes being better but fluctuating due to debuff slows). I personally cannot see any clear-cut reason as to why Shazam would beat Bane and vice versa.

Anything in a 6-4/4-6 rating isn't really worth a debate, but I'm confident in this being a 5-5.
 
Indecisive

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
Doombawkz said:
Someone said something about Bane so I'm making my appearance.
Ok? Ok.
5-5, honestly that's my guess on it all. Any good Shazam v Bane match is going to come down to the last few moments or hits, since neither side can reliably pressure the other one due to teleports/armor, and both sides do somewhat comparable damage and have good mobility (with Banes being better but fluctuating due to debuff slows). I personally cannot see any clear-cut reason as to why Shazam would beat Bane and vice versa.

Anything in a 6-4/4-6 rating isn't really worth a debate, but I'm confident in this being a 5-5.
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Its a really fun MU.
 
Digit

Digit

KH Mahvel Baby!
Bane is a really fun matchup for Shazam imo =]

And Starcharger has only played me two times offline when he came to Houston w/ his Catwoman and I always overcame the matchup in the end of our long sets. (Pre-patch and post-patch)
>_>

It's all about reads in general in this entire game and baiting wakeup etc. There's nothing both chars have that dominate the other. As chef said, both have good damage, oki, air game, and mixups.

It's 5-5
 
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YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Noob
Shazam players!!! I actually play shazam some and am fairly good with him, anyways how do u guys deal with a super patient AM (Im talking DJT patience of course :p),
 
Digit

Digit

KH Mahvel Baby!
MITDJT said:
Shazam players!!! I actually play shazam some and am fairly good with him, anyways how do u guys deal with a super patient AM (Im talking DJT patience of course :p),
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haha nice! and DJT patience can be scary stuff D: lol

but try tick command throws (AC or HM cancels off of D1 or D2's) when you're close. If you have trouble getting in, be patient yourself and bait him w/ like whiff d1, switch stance, pop trait out, etc. Walk forward cuz Aqua can easily catch Shazam dashing. Mostly block low against Aqua. Punish whiffs w/ HM or go in w/ B2 HM. B2 Torpedo's can help you be safe. On knockdown if he doesn't wakeup go for the guaranteed command grabs, and if he starts becoming wakeup happy, you can try teleporting behind him and punish wakeup. Anytime you get a MB torpedo, you can make it a guessing game for aqua, like dashing in once and going for HM, or dashing in twice to corpse hop and reverse his inputs. Make use of sweeps and either go for HM when he stands up or use F223 or F22 Reset to stuff his wake ups.

Stuff like that you can try out lol
 
Indecisive

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
Digit said:
haha nice! and DJT patience can be scary stuff D: lol

but try tick command throws (AC or HM cancels off of D1 or D2's) when you're close. If you have trouble getting in, be patient yourself and bait him w/ like whiff d1, switch stance, pop trait out, etc. Walk forward cuz Aqua can easily catch Shazam dashing. Mostly block low against Aqua. Punish whiffs w/ HM or go in w/ B2 HM. B2 Torpedo's can help you be safe. On knockdown if he doesn't wakeup go for the guaranteed command grabs, and if he starts becoming wakeup happy, you can try teleporting behind him and punish wakeup. Anytime you get a MB torpedo, you can make it a guessing game for aqua, like dashing in once and going for HM, or dashing in twice to corpse hop and reverse his inputs. Make use of sweeps and either go for HM when he stands up or use F223 or F22 Reset to stuff his wake ups.

Stuff like that you can try out lol
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Im always Scared of Doing b2 HM. Since when i did it people would punish me for it :(.
 
Digit

Digit

KH Mahvel Baby!
Indecisive said:
Im always Scared of Doing b2 HM. Since when i did it people would punish me for it :(.
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You should prolly try B2 Teleport option select? If the opponent back dashes or jumps away B23 will come out and follow combos off of that.
 
Indecisive

Indecisive

We'll burn you all—that is your fate!
Digit said:
You should prolly try B2 Teleport option select? If the opponent back dashes or jumps away B23 will come out and follow combos off of that.
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I keep meaning to try it. But im so used to B2 Torpedo that i do without even thinking sometimes. But ill try it more.
 
YOMI MITYEAP

YOMI MITYEAP

Noob
Digit said:
haha nice! and DJT patience can be scary stuff D: lol

but try tick command throws (AC or HM cancels off of D1 or D2's) when you're close. If you have trouble getting in, be patient yourself and bait him w/ like whiff d1, switch stance, pop trait out, etc. Walk forward cuz Aqua can easily catch Shazam dashing. Mostly block low against Aqua. Punish whiffs w/ HM or go in w/ B2 HM. B2 Torpedo's can help you be safe. On knockdown if he doesn't wakeup go for the guaranteed command grabs, and if he starts becoming wakeup happy, you can try teleporting behind him and punish wakeup. Anytime you get a MB torpedo, you can make it a guessing game for aqua, like dashing in once and going for HM, or dashing in twice to corpse hop and reverse his inputs. Make use of sweeps and either go for HM when he stands up or use F223 or F22 Reset to stuff his wake ups.

Stuff like that you can try out lol
Click to expand...
How minus is torpedo on block? And thanks for the help!!,
 
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