Improving Scorpion

[Jelan]

Hi guys, I'm new to this site, and also new to taking fighting games seriously. I've been playing MK since kindergarten I missed "only" DA, D and A because I didn't have a console that time.

So the point of this topic is that my all-time favorite character Scorpion is kinda weak and I'd like to discuss how he could be made better, without being broken.
I have a few ideas, I'm going to list, and feel free to critisice it, I'm not really home in this kind stuff yet.
-Faster recovery after spear. Scorp is forced to use it to dash out some real damage, but it's very risky to use. If it misses you suck up a cute little combo.
-His teleport could be safe on block. That would give him a nice way to close in fast.
-A real launcher. He can use b2, but that's risky in itself, can't be chained into a combo, only if the opponent is already in the air. Neutral jump punch can only be used if the opponent got speared and that 2,2+1 thingy is not a propel launcher either - nearly not as effective as Smoke's 3,2. Not bad, but it's kind of meh.

 

[Check]

remove f3 and f2

 

[GNG Iniquity]

Yes, Scorpion needs the ability to actually do a decent combo without the reliance of the spear. That's really what deterred me from continuing to play him; I loved him as a kid then I realized that I HAVE to use it constantly.

It'd also be nice if the animation pulling the opponent would be sped up, I just find it annoying how painfully slow it is.

 

[RedDjinn]

Hi guys, I'm new to this site, and also new to taking fighting games seriously. I've been playing MK since kindergarten I missed "only" DA, D and A because I didn't have a console that time.

So the point of this topic is that my all-time favorite character Scorpion is kinda weak meh.

Scorp is far from weak.

 

[Jelan]

Yes, Scorpion needs the ability to actually do a decent combo without the reliance of the spear. That's really what deterred me from continuing to play him; I loved him as a kid then I realized that I HAVE to use it constantly.

It'd also be nice if the animation pulling the opponent would be sped up, I just find it annoying how painfully slow it is.

I don't have a problem with having to use the spear, I have problem with how punishable the it is. For me it's a lot like Subs iceball and he has to use those (or clone in some instances). But Sub can effectively trade those and the recovery is a lot faster. Yes, the spear pulls in the opponent, but that doesn't really compensate for imo.

 

[Jelan]

Scorp is far from weak.

Scorp is far from competitive level.

 

[OutworldKeith]

I think +,, should hit low

they should allow some Hellfire strings like in MKvsDCU

& give him combos that dont rely on the spear so much

 

[N7_Spectre]

I don't have a problem with having to use the spear, I have problem with how punishable the it is. For me it's a lot like Subs iceball and he has to use those (or clone in some instances). But Sub can effectively trade those and the recovery is a lot faster. Yes, the spear pulls in the opponent, but that doesn't really compensate for imo.

You should not be throwing out spears randomly, that is the only reason you would be getting punished for it if you fail. You should be using it to anti-air on reaction or use EN-spear for a guaranteed hit. If you want to throw out random spears you better be aware of your opponents punishment options and weigh the risks carefully. Up close you should be hit confirming spears into combos, there shouldn't be any chance of being punished by a whiffed spear from point blank range. I don't agree at all that Scorpion is a weak character.

 

[PwnStar]

You're looking at Scorpion the wrong way and Mk as well. Many of the specials in this game are unsafe and have a very specific purpose. It's not like MvC where you're trying to always have threats out and fishing for a combo. A lot of players under value simple basic moves and tactics because they aren't producing huge combos. Scorpion has some serious poke pressure and can build meter like crazy with opponents fearing a combo for a wrong guess to escape it. His unblockable flame is also a very strong tool given how well he can force an opponent to turtle. Scorpion is a VERY strong character, but you cannot play him by spamming specials, and he has a learning curve with how many combo variations and options he has. Scorpion is not a zoning character, but he does have a lot of zoning punish tactics, you should be more focused on safe ways to get in or baiting mistakes with punishes, you should not be the aggressor in a zoning fight. Also Sub zero has full ability to operate as a rush down character, he does not need to always use projectile spam...there are some match ups that see little use of clone and ice ball (Smoke for example). in a case sub can be out zoned he can switch to being a rush down character and using clones to trap them in a corner.

Spear should be used inside of combos and as a punish tool. you should never be using this to poke, especially from full screen unless you're damn sure they have no punish and it will at least be blocked. Do not use it to fish for combos in a neutral scenario. However e.Spear is different, that is great for countering pressure and punishing a projectile.

Teleport is used for punishing projectiles, faking a jumpin in when you see them try to counter, poorly done jumps, and combos. You should ONLY be using it as movement on safe set ups. e.Teleport however can be because you have frame advantage on block, get a hit if it connects, and get a combo if they jump (i think).

Also why do you feel you need a launcher? He already has great AA and on the ground you shouldn't be poking with unsafe launchers. You have faster moves with more range that will give you a guarantee into a launcher...and they're safe. Unless launchers fulfill a strong AA option or some weird property, they're generally just used in combos' only...so the fact that they're a launcher is irrelevant...the important part is they are part of a combo, launching is just the way it keeps it going, just like a net, or freeze, or stun, or etc...

 

[ELC]

The only thing I'd change about Scorpion is to give Demon Fire/Hellfire a few more frames of start-up in exchange for being jump-cancelable or dash-cancelable during most of startup. That way, Demon Fire would be more effective as a baiting tool instead of a spam tool.

 

[Lord Beef]

The only thing I'd change about Scorpion is to give Demon Fire/Hellfire a few more frames of start-up in exchange for being jump-cancelable or dash-cancelable during most of startup. That way, Demon Fire would be more effective as a baiting tool instead of a spam tool.

Would be effin sweet, but I gotta disagree here. I think its more about the mind game in that context; Using hellfire to establish a situational threat, then the threat itself becomes the bait, not the move. Dash cancelling the HF would just make it TOO easy to bait the jump with HF, dash cancel, AA spear and combo imo. But that's just me, to each his/her own.





www.reverbnation.com/tyrade

 

[9.95]

I've said this before...and even though I know they will NEVER happen...

1. Faster overhead... make it so it can't be fuzzy blocked giving him a TRUE 50/50 threat of overhead/f+3

2. Faster teleport... in it's current form, it's too slow to anti-zone.

3. If not #2, then make Scorpion's teleport have a terminal distance. By this, I mean, instead of ALWAYS hitting the opponent, the distance the teleport travels is a set distance, so if I space it right, I can use the teleport to escape, to zone, to create space...etc.

 

[Lord Beef]

I've said this before...and even though I know they will NEVER happen...

1. Faster overhead... make it so it can't be fuzzy blocked giving him a TRUE 50/50 threat of overhead/f+3

2. Faster teleport... in it's current form, it's too slow to anti-zone.

3. If not #2, then make Scorpion's teleport have a terminal distance. By this, I mean, instead of ALWAYS hitting the opponent, the distance the teleport travels is a set distance, so if I space it right, I can use the teleport to escape, to zone, to create space...etc.

+1




www.reverbnation.com/tyrade

 

[greglife]

They should make it so you can tk his air teleport. That way it can open up more mix up potential.

 

[An R Key5993]

Scorpion is one of my best characters and I really don't see much wrong with him. Of course these suggestions would make him BETTER, but he is already really nice as is (the only thing I really want is a decent overhead since b2 and f3 are both slow). He has an unblockable move that can be used after almost EVERY knockdown if you use it right, he actually DOES have a teleport, which is more than some characters I use a lot can say (like Kang though he can hold is own in a fire "haha" fight), he has an air throw which can punish those who love to jump, his X-RAY, though kinda weak, can be combo'd rather easily. These suggestions are of course good and this whole comment is of course my opinion but if Scorpion gets buffed (and I can already dish out 40% combos) then other players will complain about buffs for more people. We need to worry about characters who are in definite need of a buff like Sheeva haha, no speed and just above average strength (with no great juggling ability =/).

 

[Slips]

Scorpion is fine. My only suggestion is making his teleport punch SLIGHTLY faster. Its so slow and so unsafe yet its his only option to get in on characters that zone better than him.

Not a Smoke speed TP, that'd be broke, but something in between.

It'd be nice is his leg takedown wasn't his ass so easily. its 10 damage with no wake-ups for God's sake, give me a break lol.

 

[zaf]

I hate seeing threads like this and there is usually a reason.
Look at the type of player who makes the threads. Usually underexperienced players.

Here we have someone who said they never played fighting games competitevly. This is a problem. How can someone with no experience at all make these judgements.

Scorpion is fine. learn to play him, try different things.

Hellfire is a lot better at punishing zoners then you think.
He has great ways of getting in, and when he does get in he can dish out the damage.

His teleport is fine.
His spear is fine, why would it need more recovery. That would be unbalanced.
Its speed is perfect

He doesnt need a low, he has a great one which is fast as well ( f1 )

Thread should be closed imo

 

[cgerrr]

Ok, guys, I pretty much can counter most of your anti Scorp buff arguments with pure facts, but I won’t coz I did it many times already in diff threads. But one thing can be said for sure:

If Scorpion is such a good character, why don’t we see him at tournaments/streams? Why is everyone using someone else? And if you want to cite as an example those 2 Scorps I saw at PDP tourney – they were horribly beaten by top tiers. Other than that no one plays him competitively. Why? The answer is clear: I’ll let you figure it yourself.

I hate seeing threads like this and there is usually a reason.
Look at the type of player who makes the threads. Usually underexperienced players.

Here we have someone who said they never played fighting games competitevly. This is a problem. How can someone with no experience at all make these judgements.

Wait, what? Aside from OP, you called 9.95 “someone with no experience”? Talking about ignorance, when you don’t even know right command for Scorp's 'launching' low: it's f4 not f1.

 

[ELC]

EDIT: <retracted: I need reading comprehension>

Anyhow, if Grievance ended with the F+3 animation (with the same properties), Scorpion would have a pretty good knockdown 50/50 with either F+4,F+3 or F+4~Takedown. As it is now, F+4,3 seems too high-risk-low-reward to be of any use.

 

[N7_Spectre]

I hate seeing threads like this and there is usually a reason.
Look at the type of player who makes the threads. Usually underexperienced players.

Here we have someone who said they never played fighting games competitevly. This is a problem. How can someone with no experience at all make these judgements.

Scorpion is fine. learn to play him, try different things.

Hellfire is a lot better at punishing zoners then you think.
He has great ways of getting in, and when he does get in he can dish out the damage.

His teleport is fine.
His spear is fine, why would it need more recovery. That would be unbalanced.
Its speed is perfect

He doesnt need a low, he has a great one which is fast as well ( f1 )

Thread should be closed imo

Teleport should be fixed, frames stay active for too long and projectiles can hit you seconds after you have teleported. Not to mention it would be nice to have a wake-up attack that actually works, c'mon now. You can easily get hit out of a teleport when used as a wake-up attack, even if it's an enhanced version.

 

[PimpUigi]

Scorpion sucks.
Something is wrong if I can rape my opponent with Mileena, who's my alt, and can barely touch them with Scorpion, who's my main.

 

[ELC]

@ PimpUigi: That's strange . . . I would say something about different playstyles, but from what I've heard, Mileena also relies on a heavy baiting strategy to get damage in. How are you playing him and how do you use his specials?

 

[GGA soonk]

A proper wakeup would be nice, but making teleport safe and less recovery on spear would just cause those 2 to be spammed. He isn't an aggressor so much as he is a reactionary and he works fairly well in that regard.

 

[Slips]

I hate seeing threads like this and there is usually a reason.
Look at the type of player who makes the threads. Usually underexperienced players.

Here we have someone who said they never played fighting games competitevly. This is a problem. How can someone with no experience at all make these judgements.

Scorpion is fine. learn to play him, try different things.

Hellfire is a lot better at punishing zoners then you think.
He has great ways of getting in, and when he does get in he can dish out the damage.

His teleport is fine.
His spear is fine, why would it need more recovery. That would be unbalanced.
Its speed is perfect

He doesnt need a low, he has a great one which is fast as well ( f1 )

Thread should be closed imo

Last I checked your name is just as new to me as the thread starter's name so unless you've done something in the competitive scene I don't see how your word means any more than the thread starters. Since your such an expert, how exactly does Scorp get in on Kitana or Ermac and the likes?

I never said he doesn't have a low, I'm saying his slide is unjustifiably super punishable.

PEACE

 

[OutworldKeith]

Last I checked your name is just as new to me as the thread starter's name so unless you've done something in the competitive scene I don't see how your word means any more than the thread starters. Since your such an expert, how exactly does Scorp get in on Kitana or Ermac and the likes?

I never said he doesn't have a low, I'm saying his slide is unjustifiably super punishable.

PEACE

I know that you can bait Ermac's TKS & Forceport & I'm not too experienced against Kitana