If NRS removed the ability to cancel pokes on block......

[ryublaze]

Sounds like oddly specific spacing for that to happen consistently but I know you've played Slips a lot who likes his pokes into Flame Aura a lot so I won't discount that it CAN happen lol. I'll look into it.

I think it's better to use it offensively than defensively since you can't really space it out in some characters' pressure and most of the time you'll be wanting to rely on your fastest poke (Scorpion's d1) which is easier to interrupt than d3 flame aura.

Using it offensively such as doing meaty d3 flame aura or b3 fbrc d3 flame aura lets you space it out properly so that counterpokes will whiff.

 

[I.z.u.n.a.]

The d3 in d3~aura I'm pretty sure has better cancel advantage than d1 and d3 moves his whole hurtbox back as well. d1~aura gets hit out of all the time but d3~aura works very well.

 

[I.z.u.n.a.]

@Red Raptor whatever happened to Slips? Did his Scorpion not cut the mustard and he quit? I remember you busting him up on his stream lol. God that was some good entertainment.

 

[Eddy Wang]

First NRS got the jump ins nerfed, and now you...

Are you asking for pokes and footsies nerf?

Since when low profiling safe mids that are special cancelable to steal turn footsies? lol
the neutral of this game is just busted no matter how ppl look at it.

Lets just hope they make it better next MK.

 

[d3v]

No mention of the fact that doing this would result in the creation of hit/block option selects?

In other words, the better question would be which characters would be able to take advantage of this by using option selected safe pokes into specials/combos.

 

[TwiztidOne]

No mention of the fact that doing this would result in the creation of hit/block option selects?

In other words, the better question would be which characters would be able to take advantage of this by using option selected safe pokes into specials/combos.

I get what you're saying, but it wouldn't be an option select since pokes don't combo into specials

if someone hit you with a poke~special, the poke would hit but you'd still be able to block the special and they'd just be giving up the hit advantage fom the poke

 

[Tanno]

Since when low profiling safe mids that are special cancelable to steal turn footsies? lol
the neutral of this game is just busted no matter how ppl look at it.

Lets just hope they make it better next MK.

LOL. They way they just ask this is like they want to prevent the rest of the kast to special cancel the pokes, so that they can mop them. It's like you're asking to prevent Sub Zero do the D1 and D4 into Ice Klone. The other games, like Guilty Gears, Street Fighter, etc do have such thing. Why remove it? It's a part of the Fighting Game.

If they don't like it, let them think of workarounds to beat them.

 

[Killer Xinok]

I miss Mk9 poke's frame data

Cancelling out of pokes were almost neutral, you could easily stop them
and they were really negative on block

MK9 Cage's frame data below

Advantage (block)
D+1 (vs crouch) - -13

Cancel Advantage (block | hit)
D+1 (vs crouch) - +1 | +13

 

[IrishMantis]

Well in fairness

It did have a small place in MK9 but the chars that had it I can only count on one hand

I believe this was more due to having little to no safe on block specials .

Jax D4 Gotcha
Sub D4 clone
Kitana D1 Cutter
Baraka D1 Slice
And the most annoying one in the game. Sonya D4 Millitary stance


I'm not too sure if Smoke had D1 smoke bomb or I'm misremembering.

 

[Xxonemanwolfpax]

LOL scrub 0 and dreadlock obviously

 

[Eddy Wang]

LOL. They way they just ask this is like they want to prevent the rest of the kast to special cancel the pokes, so that they can mop them. It's like you're asking to prevent Sub Zero do the D1 and D4 into Ice Klone. The other games, like Guilty Gears, Street Fighter, etc do have such thing. Why remove it? It's a part of the Fighting Game.

If they don't like it, let them think of workarounds to beat them.

Other fighting games either pokes don't low profile highs, or characters have normals or mids that are just as fast as the pokes are. Which prevent d1 specials, or d1 into d1 because low profiling.
its an entire different scenario.
In MKX having fast mids that start a combo is broke, remember raiden?
But then most of the fastest highs in this game are 6 to 7f but they're still highs but who care? D1 will low profile anyway that's why.

IMO, if someone used a D1 to low profile highs after they being minus, it should raise their hitbox, they would still be able to make it whiff if they neutral crouch it, but doing so would be a hard read just like throws are.
This would stop lots of nonsence we've been witnessing since day 1, do a -11 string, pokes, do d1, opponent blocks, d1 anyway.

#potatofoosties


Also, Kitana players became rich in MK9 with d1~cutter, that was some great bills of good there, everyone was just too lazy to neutral crouch the cutter and punish on whiff, great times indeed tho, i was d1~cutter myself, until i've met f4~crimson dash against wakeups.

 

[Tanno]

Well in fairness

It did have a small place in MK9 but the chars that had it I can only count on one hand

I believe this was more due to having little to no safe on block specials .

Jax D4 Gotcha
Sub D4 clone
Kitana D1 Cutter
Baraka D1 Slice
And the most annoying one in the game. Sonya D4 Millitary stance


I'm not too sure if Smoke had D1 smoke bomb or I'm misremembering.

I confirm that Smoke has one, too. Half of the kast do have it. The rest that do not have it have other abilities, like Raiden. Scorpion has one, too.

 

[d3v]

I get what you're saying, but it wouldn't be an option select since pokes don't combo into specials

if someone hit you with a poke~special, the poke would hit but you'd still be able to block the special and they'd just be giving up the hit advantage fom the poke

Right... I forgot that this is MK/NRS, and it that doesn't use hit stun.

Other fighting games either pokes don't low profile highs...

It's unique to NRS games since they use 3D fighting game normal differentiation. Traditional 2D fighting games don't really use the same system. Instead you get regular, low, and overhead. Nothing is really flagged as "high" that can get low profiled as low profiling only happens due to hitboxes.

 

[VerminatorX]

What about stop putting every char in same shoes and take a close look on them, and enable poke cancel to those chars that heavily rely on it like Goro for example, but take away that ability from chars that have enough tools already?

 

[trufenix]

I think while we're making up rules, we should think about who would be better if they added air combos or maybe a universal low parry.

Right... I forgot that this is MK/NRS, and it that doesn't use hit stun.

It's unique to NRS games since they use 3D fighting game normal differentiation. Traditional 2D fighting games don't really use the same system. Instead you get regular, low, and overhead. Nothing is really flagged as "high" that can get low profiled as low profiling only happens due to hitboxes.

Dude, every fighting game has low profiling. Every single one. 2D/3D, you name it. From SF2:CE all the way to GGXrd.

 

[Tanno]

Dude, every fighting game has low profiling. Every single one. 2D/3D, you name it. From SF2:CE all the way to GGXrd.

^This! Tell them, boi! Removing it would be like taking a cupcake from a kid. If I had a real katana, I would do a low kick, and then do an upward slash on anybody who wants to remove this...

 

[Matix218]

That's what I mean, pretty sure most characters have a fast enough normal interrupt it, I didn't just mean counterpoking with an actual poke.

Sounds like oddly specific spacing for that to happen consistently but I know you've played Slips a lot who likes his pokes into Flame Aura a lot so I won't discount that it CAN happen lol. I'll look into it.

And lets not forget Raptor is a Hellfire main himself now

 

[d3v]

I think while we're making up rules, we should think about who would be better if they added air combos or maybe a universal low parry.



Dude, every fighting game has low profiling. Every single one. 2D/3D, you name it. From SF2:CE all the way to GGXrd.

^This! Tell them, boi! Removing it would be like taking a cupcake from a kid. If I had a real katana, I would do a low kick, and then do an upward slash on anybody who wants to remove this...

I never said that there wasn't low profiling. What I pointed out is that low profiling in 2D fighting games not made by NRS happens because of hit and hurtboxes, not because an attack is flagged as "high" which is how 3D fighters handle it.

Nothing is really flagged as "high" that can get low profiled as low profiling only happens due to hitboxes.

2D fighters flag their attacks differently from 3D fighters (and NRS 2D). The latter has:

• high - can be blocked standing, misses on crouching
• mid - can be block standing or crouching, hits both as well
• low - must be block crouching, high attacks will whiff because it counts as crouching.
• overhead - must be blocked standing.

Meanwhile, traditional 2D fighters only have the ff.

• high - can be blocked either way, hits either way. Every standing attack not an overhead is this.
• mid/overhead - must be blocked standing.
• low - must be blocked low

As previously stated, there is nothing in how attacks are flagged in traditional 2D that makes them low profile-able, or allows them to low profile attacks. Low profiling happens only because of hitboxes.

 

[trufenix]

hitbox theory

It's an eloquent post, it's just wrong. SF has lots of boxes that are high / standing hit only. Go fire up SF4, pick Hugo, crouch, then go to town with just about any cast members (far) buttons. See which one goes through his face, then aim a jump kick at the same spot. Report your findings.

 

[d3v]

It's an eloquent post, it's just wrong. SF has lots of boxes that are high / standing hit only. Go fire up SF4, pick Hugo, crouch, then go to town with just about any cast members (far) buttons. See which one goes through his face, then aim a jump kick at the same spot. Report your findings.

Hugo in Ultra is a poor example because of how glitchy crouching hurtboxes for the new characters in that game are, where certain standing attacks will whiff. Even if this was intentional for Hugo (to address one of his issues in SFIII), it's still a non-standard implementation - one that likely caused all the other bugs in the other characters. As a counter point, load up 3rd Strike, have Hugo crouch, then have all other characters try their longest ranged standing normals on him, and they'll hit.

What I stated is generally how traditional 2D fighting games have worked for years. Heck, the definition I gave of low, mid and high for 2D fighters is literally how the Japanese label attacks. When a Japanese player says "mid" they're literally referring to what we call "overheads" and not "attacks that cannot be low profiled".

Let's try to remember the reason 3D fighters added their own version of "high" in the first place. Because unlike 2D fighters where hitboxes were manually added for each single frame of animation, 3D fighters used hit-spheres that were connected to specific parts of a character model. This mean that they needed to create flag for an attack to whiff on crouchers, even if the hit-sphere connected.

 

[trufenix]

...

I don't. . . okay, man. You got it. Here's your like.