TakeAChance
TYM White Knight
So, all of this talk about how "Nightwing is OP" is starting to piss me off...
Let me just say this. If any of you played a competent Wonderwoman, she makes Nightwing look like a red headed step child.
I am not talking about the fact that she just beats him in the matchup...I am talking about tools.
Lets compare shall we?
Nightwing in Escrima mode has a 6f +21 block string. This string is crouchable, and backdashable on the last hit however is quick enough to catch most people off guard. It is a really good string.
However, since it is a true high, he gets obliterated by people that poke him in this mode. Seeing as his only response to pokes other than his true high is a 10f mid, he gets locked down rather easily, especially against characters with + or neutral poke pressure. He cannot counter poke with his own d1 because it is 9f. So, he literally can't do shit against people with poke pressure aside from backdash and run away.
Lets look at Wonderwoman in Lasso Stance.
B11 is a 10 frame forward advancing hitconfirmable into over 40% mid. It is also +3 on block. Making a follow up 7f. Or making her d1 3 frames. For most characters B11, B11, B11 will be tough to deal with in itself. It is a really good fast mid hitting frame trap.
She has insane aerial control here, her dash mixups into jailing drop 2 into B11 is VERY good. She can zip across the screen whenever she wants at pretty much all times.
Her b2 has insane range and is hit confirmable into a very safe lasso grab for +14 on block.
She OTG's with her air dive, and has a completely invincible wakeup spin that leads to mad damage. This however is fair as it is baitable, however is hard to punish on block due to pushback. (this is fair.)
Lets compare the other two stances where one would think Nightwing would hold an extreme advantage.
Staff Stance vs Sword Stance.
Nightwings staff stance is very very very good. His d1 is his meat and potatoes here however.
He needs it to get his offense going. A Nightwing without a d1 in staff mode, is done for. Without being able to get his 1 string starterd (11f starter) he would be awful.
So, he has a +1 d1 (frame data says +5, but it's not) Everyone and their mother cries op because of this move.
His flying grayson. Safe on block (negative however), covers three quarters of the screen, but has insanely good vertical hit properties. This move is good, but can be blown up if used to much by simply reading it, neutral crouch and blowing it up with a d2.
His block strings are limited to staff spin and ground pound. Staff spin builds great meter and does amazing chip, but it will leave you negative. Meterburning it leaves you at hefty advantage (+19) and is essential for locking down opponents in the corner. Ground pound can be poked out of/full combo'd out of EVERYTIME on block if you see it coming. If it gets out, you are left at +9.
His ground pound forces movement, which is it's purpose however, against characters with aerial control, it will not net you the results it does against characters that do not have the mobility.
His wakeups in staff mode are limited via the fact that most can be simply jumped over. If you have an air dash, you are going to force nightwing into blocking rather quickly.
Sword Stance.
+4 7f d1. Yes you read that right. +4. All of you Nightwing haters comprehend that for a minute.
Granted wonderwoman does not have the options that Nightwing has off a D1, she does have her meterburned shield bash to make you respect her follwups giving her almost limitless access to strings. Oh, she is +9 after a meterburned shield bash btw.
One of Nightwings biggest draw backs in staff stance is that he cannot use any aerial interactables anymore, his jump arc is too low. Wonder woman is not inhibited by this and instead gets an insane crossup j2. She retains her regular jump arc, but loses her ability to air dash. Still, not bad for a power character when they have access to D1 d1 d1 shield bash and can throw shit in your face.
Once you respect the d1, it opens her up for j2 and shield bash which she can then once conditioned pretty much walk all over you with.
Nightwing has fuck all for ambiguous crossups unless he is in the corner.
The damage differential for both characters is insanely one sided in favour of wonder woman. It takes wonderwoman two combos to kill a bar METERLESS.
It takes Nightwing 3 to kill you at the cost of 1 meter each (staff) or no meter (escrima).
Before you all cry QQ level up, this is in fact my way of leveling up and explaining the matchup to myself and comparing the characters. This is definitely a hard match for Nightwing, but it also shows How Wonderwoman can do everything Nightwing can, but have more options at all times by doing it.
Do you agree or disagree?
I encourage your thoughts and criticisms.
TLDR?
Summarized Version
Nightwing: Great frame traps in escrima, however, most start on a true high or are slow startup. Complete shit to get out of pressure, good runaway game and mobility, great dash. 9F d1. No great crossup combo potential. (J2 and J3 are poor crossups)
Great lockdown in staff mode, wonderful +1 D1, good chip damage, safe specials (unless they whiff) but poor wakeup coverage against crossups. Also has to trade his mobility and interactable usage (aerial) for staff mode. No crossup tool other than abusing Flying Grayson crossups.
Wonderwoman: Lasso: Constant Midhitting 10f +3 advantage coupled with a 6f d1 (-2) B11 reps are 7f each after connecting one b11. That's a safe mid hitting loop hitconfirmable into over 40 percent damage. High Damage combos Instant screen presence with ia charge, OTG's with dive bomb, ignores most wakeups with b2 disjointed hitbox and has air dash mixups. Excellent D2 anti air.
Shield Stance: +3 D1 (Nightwings is plus 1) Meterburned Shield bash for +9 mid advancing hits aerial as well. Retains mobility and interactable usage, but loses air dash. Does mad damage and has a great cross up J2 to compensate for air dash mixups.
Let me just say this. If any of you played a competent Wonderwoman, she makes Nightwing look like a red headed step child.
I am not talking about the fact that she just beats him in the matchup...I am talking about tools.
Lets compare shall we?
Nightwing in Escrima mode has a 6f +21 block string. This string is crouchable, and backdashable on the last hit however is quick enough to catch most people off guard. It is a really good string.
However, since it is a true high, he gets obliterated by people that poke him in this mode. Seeing as his only response to pokes other than his true high is a 10f mid, he gets locked down rather easily, especially against characters with + or neutral poke pressure. He cannot counter poke with his own d1 because it is 9f. So, he literally can't do shit against people with poke pressure aside from backdash and run away.
Lets look at Wonderwoman in Lasso Stance.
B11 is a 10 frame forward advancing hitconfirmable into over 40% mid. It is also +3 on block. Making a follow up 7f. Or making her d1 3 frames. For most characters B11, B11, B11 will be tough to deal with in itself. It is a really good fast mid hitting frame trap.
She has insane aerial control here, her dash mixups into jailing drop 2 into B11 is VERY good. She can zip across the screen whenever she wants at pretty much all times.
Her b2 has insane range and is hit confirmable into a very safe lasso grab for +14 on block.
She OTG's with her air dive, and has a completely invincible wakeup spin that leads to mad damage. This however is fair as it is baitable, however is hard to punish on block due to pushback. (this is fair.)
Lets compare the other two stances where one would think Nightwing would hold an extreme advantage.
Staff Stance vs Sword Stance.
Nightwings staff stance is very very very good. His d1 is his meat and potatoes here however.
He needs it to get his offense going. A Nightwing without a d1 in staff mode, is done for. Without being able to get his 1 string starterd (11f starter) he would be awful.
So, he has a +1 d1 (frame data says +5, but it's not) Everyone and their mother cries op because of this move.
His flying grayson. Safe on block (negative however), covers three quarters of the screen, but has insanely good vertical hit properties. This move is good, but can be blown up if used to much by simply reading it, neutral crouch and blowing it up with a d2.
His block strings are limited to staff spin and ground pound. Staff spin builds great meter and does amazing chip, but it will leave you negative. Meterburning it leaves you at hefty advantage (+19) and is essential for locking down opponents in the corner. Ground pound can be poked out of/full combo'd out of EVERYTIME on block if you see it coming. If it gets out, you are left at +9.
His ground pound forces movement, which is it's purpose however, against characters with aerial control, it will not net you the results it does against characters that do not have the mobility.
His wakeups in staff mode are limited via the fact that most can be simply jumped over. If you have an air dash, you are going to force nightwing into blocking rather quickly.
Sword Stance.
+4 7f d1. Yes you read that right. +4. All of you Nightwing haters comprehend that for a minute.
Granted wonderwoman does not have the options that Nightwing has off a D1, she does have her meterburned shield bash to make you respect her follwups giving her almost limitless access to strings. Oh, she is +9 after a meterburned shield bash btw.
One of Nightwings biggest draw backs in staff stance is that he cannot use any aerial interactables anymore, his jump arc is too low. Wonder woman is not inhibited by this and instead gets an insane crossup j2. She retains her regular jump arc, but loses her ability to air dash. Still, not bad for a power character when they have access to D1 d1 d1 shield bash and can throw shit in your face.
Once you respect the d1, it opens her up for j2 and shield bash which she can then once conditioned pretty much walk all over you with.
Nightwing has fuck all for ambiguous crossups unless he is in the corner.
The damage differential for both characters is insanely one sided in favour of wonder woman. It takes wonderwoman two combos to kill a bar METERLESS.
It takes Nightwing 3 to kill you at the cost of 1 meter each (staff) or no meter (escrima).
Before you all cry QQ level up, this is in fact my way of leveling up and explaining the matchup to myself and comparing the characters. This is definitely a hard match for Nightwing, but it also shows How Wonderwoman can do everything Nightwing can, but have more options at all times by doing it.
Do you agree or disagree?
I encourage your thoughts and criticisms.
TLDR?
Summarized Version
Nightwing: Great frame traps in escrima, however, most start on a true high or are slow startup. Complete shit to get out of pressure, good runaway game and mobility, great dash. 9F d1. No great crossup combo potential. (J2 and J3 are poor crossups)
Great lockdown in staff mode, wonderful +1 D1, good chip damage, safe specials (unless they whiff) but poor wakeup coverage against crossups. Also has to trade his mobility and interactable usage (aerial) for staff mode. No crossup tool other than abusing Flying Grayson crossups.
Wonderwoman: Lasso: Constant Midhitting 10f +3 advantage coupled with a 6f d1 (-2) B11 reps are 7f each after connecting one b11. That's a safe mid hitting loop hitconfirmable into over 40 percent damage. High Damage combos Instant screen presence with ia charge, OTG's with dive bomb, ignores most wakeups with b2 disjointed hitbox and has air dash mixups. Excellent D2 anti air.
Shield Stance: +3 D1 (Nightwings is plus 1) Meterburned Shield bash for +9 mid advancing hits aerial as well. Retains mobility and interactable usage, but loses air dash. Does mad damage and has a great cross up J2 to compensate for air dash mixups.
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