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"I win. I always win." - The Official General Zod Discussion Thread

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Yea thats crazy. Plus it applies to pretty much every character. Whiffing normals in freeze state gives everyone a reset mixup. Am I understanding this correctly?
yes

However can you name me ONE character is benefits other than zod?

I cant name you one. Possibly superman, maybe batgirl after bola (will try) but zod unquestionably its massive for.

after practice in second match online i did a 87% 3 bar
 

K7L33THA

Grapple > Footsies
yes

However can you name me ONE character is benefits other than zod?

I cant name you one. Possibly superman, maybe batgirl after bola (will try) but zod unquestionably its massive for.

after practice in second match online i did a 87% 3 bar
Hmm I dunno. This can certainly change the game IMO. Zod just got ultra dirty thats for sure.
 

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
yes

However can you name me ONE character is benefits other than zod?

I cant name you one. Possibly superman, maybe batgirl after bola (will try) but zod unquestionably its massive for.

after practice in second match online i did a 87% 3 bar
Arrow is the only other character who can make real use of it. It resets his damage and lets him get a full damage inescapable super reset after a freeze arrow. Been using it for a while after SimSim first found it, figured it was common knowledge.
 

Vulcan Hades

Champion
Wait so is it a true reset (blockable 50/50) or a glitch like Cyrax had?

If it's a blockable reset then why not just J2 wait a tick into ambiguous cross-up/fake cross-up? And if it's unblockable/guaranteed counter reset then may MMH save us all from this new evil.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Wait so is it a true reset (blockable 50/50) or a glitch like Cyrax had?

If it's a blockable reset then why not just J2 wait a tick into ambiguous cross-up/fake cross-up? And if it's unblockable/guaranteed counter reset then may MMH save us all from this new evil.
it works exactly like killer frost resets work
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
I can understand that. You certainly seem to be so hyped at the moment for good reason after all. I've been underselling trait as a reset option for a while now mostly because I find his need of an overhead starter more pressing. That and I've always had crap time getting pre-d4 trait damage
im live
 

dribirut

BLAK FELOW
This is def cool but couldn't you already pretty much set this up by just doing j2 1 after the grab and get a free 50/50?
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
Well there's a universal reset on that frozen pipe stage now lol. Just whiff a normal and go for mixup/crossover.

fortress of solitude

22 SHip interactable trait grab *Reset* go into potential endless damage combo starting w doomsday interactable
 

Colonel-Gilgamesh

Hates NRS for making me not like Superman
To something Pig said a bit earlier: I'm a terrible player, so a lot of my footsie combos end with a PS since the risk reward is pretty good on that
 

SimSim

Norwegian Lab-work Champion
I go to sleep and this forum goes ham.

-The freeze/trap reset was already front paged a long time ago
-ending in mb side arm -> d4 does not lead to a cross up as a part o the mix up (since sinestro can block back no matter what - It might hit cross up if sinestro doesn't block some times, but never if he blocks back)
-I land 4, 3 xx d4 like 95% of the time, so clearly it is very possible to get consistently. I think the reason why you are not getting it is because of your lack of familiarity with the 4, f2 xx d4 set up (Which I seem to use more than you in my gamepplay). The 4, 3 xx d4 is easier though: You do f2, then 4 right away, then waith 0.1 sec for the 4 to knock them close to your body (But it doesn't really feel like a wait to me, I do it really fast, just not plinking fas), then cancel that 3 by pressing d4 as fast as possible after pressing the 3)
This is def cool but couldn't you already pretty much set this up by just doing j2 1 after the grab and get a free 50/50?
- What do you mean j2 1? If you mean j2 to hit the opponent and use the hitstun to mix them up, then yes, he can do that, but as I explained earlier as a counter argument to this, in that reset you won't be able to use an ambiguous j2 as a part of the mix up, which increases it's mix up potential exponentially.
-This does not work with the pipe on Asylum
 

SimSim

Norwegian Lab-work Champion
I want to make this double post just to put emphasis on what I think is important:
-It seems Pig is more than happy enough to just have the reset as a grounded 50/50 (I think the only strong mix up Zod has on the ground without trait out is 213/21 xx mb laser).

-I think noone should be happy with just that, when you instead could work on set ups and bnb's in to trait grab that leaves you at a distance for f2 (whiff) and then a j2 that you decide if will cross up or not, THEN go for the grounded mix up. Don't be content. Innovate and practice!

I am talking about whiffing a normal or something for a reset BEFORE the j2 btw, if there is any confusion about that! That way they have the block the j2 the right way, as well as the mix up.

PS: from what I saw in the archive when you did reset stuff, you would often neutral jump 2 (whiff), dash, then go for the mix up. First of all you can always jump towards the opponent while whiffing 2 in the air since it doesn't have a lot of active frames, and at that point you are close enough to do a mix up without having to dash (Which some times led to you having too little time to reset before they were thrown away). Also after full screen trait grab you did, dash, 1, dash, mix up, where I would argue that you should do, zod charge, jump in 2, mix up. Also, instead of doing neutral jump 2, dash, mix up when landing d4 close, you can whiff, 1, then jump in 2, mix up.

AK Pig Of The Hut
 

SimSim

Norwegian Lab-work Champion
And I want to make this tripple post to explain resets.

What justifies a reset?

A reset is basically dropping a combo on purpose to potentially gain more unscaled damage. Great, so why do you not always go for reset then? More damage right? Well, for a reset to be "worth it", you should, first of all, have a strong mix up incoming, so that the probability of your opponent blocking that reset is as low as possible. If your mix up is weak, the opponent will block your reset attempt and you just threw away guaranteed damage on a reset, weak mix up and a dream.

The other factor is the "potential damage vs the guaranteed damage". If you do your reset after the first 2 hits of a combo, you are probably sacrificing guaranteed damage that would equate at least 60%-70% of the potential damage. Is this worth it? Should you be giving up 100 guaranteed damage by stopping after 20 damage, and potentially get 100-110 more damage (120-130 damage together)?

The rules that will tell you if your reset is worth going for is. If your mix up is strong AND you are gaining more than 50% more damage if succeeding with the mix up, you should probably do it (This is not an established rule, but it's something I think personally). These 2 factors will affect each other of course, so if the mix up is insanely strong, that might justify going for the reset even if you only gain 30% more damage by landing it. If the potential damage you can get is 100% more than the guaranteed damage, but your mix up is kind of weak, maybe it is still worth going for once in a while.

How does this relate to Zod:
Usually when landing a trait grab in the beginning of a combo, you have a 40-45% combo coming. If you decide to reset the opponent after dealing 10-15% and therefor sacrificing 25%-30% damage for a potential "new" combo that does 45%, you are basically placing your guaranteed 40-45% combo in a wager and hoping to win 50-60%. If you lose this bet, you will be left with 10-15% damage.

When I looked in to trait combo resets yesterday, I was doing 30-39% damage in to resets that had both ambiguous j2 and mix ups in the reset. Here you sacrifice 10-15% guaranteed damage for potential 70-80% damage from a stronger mix up. In my head this might be a risk that I would be willing to take.

At the end I would like to add a point that speaks towards the use of Zod's mix up: Zod's trait grab will throw the opponent to the ground at the end of the animation, usually leaving no room for a reset, while stuff like Frost's freeze and Superman's freeze will reset the opponent standing if they don't do anything. Because of this people might not expect a reset out of the trait grab at all, while they in frozen states are "on the look" for resets. This is kind of a gimmick though, as at a high level players will learn to recognise that the zod player has whiffed something in order for a reset.
 

godlessmode

Apprentice
Am I missing something here?

This tech sounds nice (although it's pretty old tech, it was how Batgirl did her infinite when she was released) but in practice with Zod I am struggling to see how it compares to frosts.

The reason Frost has such a strong vortex is because of the speed/safety of her F3/Slide. You cannot react to either of her 50/50 starters, she does decent-to-high damage and is at almost no risk during the setup.

Zod doesn't have the same quality of 50/50 combo starters that, at least that I am aware of. His only strong/fast overhead option is the trait, and you will be using that up to start the reset. Most of his other options are punishable, react-able, low yield, or all of the above.

SimSim offers the closest to a strong/viable mix-up IMO in his ambiguous cross-up ji2 setups, and as long as they are truly ambiguous then they are probably what will work best long term for Zod.