Guide "I Love My Job" -- Deathstroke General Discussion Thread

[NHDR]

You do realize that Akuma could loop his s.HK on some characters and it did obscene amounts of stun, right? Worse, the move was 0 on block so there was almost no risk throwing it out. If he knocked 'Gief down it was basically GG because of how ridiculous his vortex was. That character had it coming.

Seth is pretty much in the same boat. He had absolutely no weaknesses aside from low health, and that's a poor way to balance a character. If vanilla SF4 had been played for longer, he'd undoubtedly be one of the best, too. 9-1 match-ups are things that should never exist in a fighting game.

They didn't nerf the FADC mechanic at all, by the way. I'm not sure what you're talking about there.

I agree that they kind of watered SF4 down with all of the nerfs, but some things had to go without question. The fact that the current game is pretty decently balanced is nothing but a fortunate accident.

The AE 2012 version of Akuma was fine. But they nerfed his air fireballs--which aren't that good, anyway--because the average SF player is impatient and sucks at blocking. Seth was nerfed because scrubs hated his playstyle, but what they didn't realize is that they actually just dislike SF4 in general. The whole game is based on setups and 50/50's, Seth is just better at them. FADC xx forward is going to put all the shotos at -3 in AE 2014 because scrubs complained it was too safe. Even though FADC is what SF4 is based around.

The average SF player is like the typical Injustice scrub who complains about DS. If SF fans were in charge of balancing Injustice then DS wouldn't even have guns. Every character would get in for free and play the same rushdown style. Boring. I get fucking sick when I see idiots say "oh, that match was hadouken spam". I wish they'd all go back to Call of Duty and stay there.

EDIT: I don't want to derail this thread. PM me your reply!

 

[Ermaculate_Slim]

Well conditioned jump ins are different. A safe jump in is a safe jump in. I just mean in the neutral game, I can't believe characters like those 2 can even pierce the range of a friggin broadsword swing with their hands. It has nothing to do with matchups.

(KF is free as **** though)

Well in a neutral game you shouldn't really be jumping at GL anyway to begin with unless its after a HKD.Also you gonna have to school me on that KF MU then because I still don't have a valid strategy against her.

 

[Nutrient]

Out of many things I don't get about Deathstroke

Why doesn't his 231 string, last being the pistol fire only do 1 hit?
have it do 2 like bats
Batmans batarangs do 2 for no real reason other then to fuck up armour

Wonder if having DS rifle special special cancelable would be like

 

[Mikman360]

Well in a neutral game you shouldn't really be jumping at GL anyway to begin with unless its after a HKD.Also you gonna have to school me on that KF MU then because I still don't have a valid strategy against her.

Well true, maybe GL wasn't the best example. I just wanted to pick characters that don't (or didnt use to) have reliable AAs, and these 2 in particular are just using their HANDS to beat a swords range. I find that somewhat rediculous honestly.

You beat KF at a range, MB QF punish icebergs, Low Shots dodge axes. She has to come to you.
Check all blocked slides with D1. Follow up with a proper read on the opponents reaction to D1. Do they try to D1 back? Ji3. Do they jump back? Ji1. Do the block low? B2.
Pick Watchtower every game. Throw drones. Slide and iceberg cant touch you up there.
Finish combos with D1 xx Flip, do 1 dash, and F3. If they wakeup slide, you dodge it. If they dont, F3 either hits or gives you a free 50/50.
If they ALWAYS wake up with slide, dash in, jump back 1, full combo punish.

Out of many things I don't get about Deathstroke

Why doesn't his 231 string, last being the pistol fire only do 1 hit?
have it do 2 like bats
Batmans batarangs do 2 for no real reason other then to fuck up armour


Wonder if having DS rifle special special cancelable would be like

I've wondered this for a while now too lol. He IS shooting both of his guns.
Special cancellable AR would be the most hilariously broken thing evah.

 

[Ermaculate_Slim]

Well true, maybe GL wasn't the best example. I just wanted to pick characters that don't (or didnt use to) have reliable AAs, and these 2 in particular are just using their HANDS to beat a swords range. I find that somewhat rediculous honestly.

You beat KF at a range, MB QF punish icebergs, Low Shots dodge axes. She has to come to you.
Check all blocked slides with D1. Follow up with a proper read on the opponents reaction to D1. Do they try to D1 back? Ji3. Do they jump back? Ji1. Do the block low? B2.
Pick Watchtower every game. Throw drones. Slide and iceberg cant touch you up there.
Finish combos with D1 xx Flip, do 1 dash, and F3. If they wakeup slide, you dodge it. If they dont, F3 either hits or gives you a free 50/50.
If they ALWAYS wake up with slide, dash in, jump back 1, full combo punish.

Thx for the tips shes just one of those characters that I struggle hard against prolly cause Im playing the MU wrong.

 

[Mikman360]

Oh, and if you get frozen, block low first, then IMMEDIATELY switch to high if you aren't being hit. The low comes out quicker than the overhead, so if you're quick, you can actually react to her vortex setups.

 

[Rampage254]

Oh, and if you get frozen, block low first, then IMMEDIATELY switch to high if you aren't being hit. The low comes out quicker than the overhead, so if you're quick, you can actually react to her vortex setups.

Are you still making that new combo thread, or do you want me to make it cause I have an organized one that I'm almost done making on MKU, so I can just quickly copy all that stuff over.

 

[Mikman360]

Are you still making that new combo thread, or do you want me to make it cause I have an organized one that I'm almost done making on MKU, so I can just quickly copy all that stuff over.

I was actually planning on posting something today lol, soon as my bro gets off my system. You can post your stuff though. More information is always better.

 

[Rampage254]

I was actually planning on posting something today lol, soon as my bro gets off my system. You can post your stuff though. More information is always better.

Well you'll probably have most of the stuff I already have anyways. If you want I can just PM you the stuff I have so far to make it less of a hassle.

 

[RM Jonnitti]

i think deathstroke is viable and still people dont know shit about most matchups in this game and sound retarded when they talk about them. honestly nobody ever accounts for stages and everyiones just like LOL LOW GUNS PUNISHABLE. im a sub par fighting game player in general and i do just alright against Darth Arma. haven't beaten him but ive sure done alright. we've played the matchup almost every week since the game has been out. you have to chip him on his approach and make a read as soon as hes in range to do something that can actually hit thats not batarangs or trait bats. and make sure you are used to blocking batman

as for superman i definitely think thats even, just people suck at baiting out normals and blowing it up. he can jump out of f23 breath and jb3 a lot of the followups. guns are really good against him until he has super, and honestly using super as superman is kinda stupid unless its going to kill you or put you at less than 10%. honestly in this match all he has is f2 and super. you can easy counterzone him if he tries. i dont see how its a bad matchup really. people are just like LOL SUPERMAN

 

[Matix218]

i think deathstroke is viable and still people dont know shit about most matchups in this game and sound retarded when they talk about them. honestly nobody ever accounts for stages and everyiones just like LOL LOW GUNS PUNISHABLE. im a sub par fighting game player in general and i do just alright against Darth Arma. haven't beaten him but ive sure done alright. we've played the matchup almost every week since the game has been out. you have to chip him on his approach and make a read as soon as hes in range to do something that can actually hit thats not batarangs or trait bats. and make sure you are used to blocking batman

as for superman i definitely think thats even, just people suck at baiting out normals and blowing it up. he can jump out of f23 breath and jb3 a lot of the followups. guns are really good against him until he has super, and honestly using super as superman is kinda stupid unless its going to kill you or put you at less than 10%. honestly in this match all he has is f2 and super. you can easy counterzone him if he tries. i dont see how its a bad matchup really. people are just like LOL SUPERMAN

I agree that superman is much more even than batman. If you are doing ok against Darth Arma you are doing something right because he has one of the best Batmans period. What does he think of the batman vs deathstroke matchup? 6-4 batman?

 

[RM Jonnitti]

I agree that superman is much more even than batman. If you are doing ok against Darth Arma you are doing something right because he has one of the best Batmans period. What does he think of the batman vs deathstroke matchup? 6-4 batman?

something like that or 5.5-4.5 batman. its pretty hard but its definitely winnable. you also have to take advantage of the fact that his wakeups are absolute dogshit. when crossing him up, worst case scenario is he slides and hes at full screen again. whatever.

 

[Matix218]

something like that or 5.5-4.5 batman. its pretty hard but its definitely winnable. you also have to take advantage of the fact that his wakeups are absolute dogshit. when crossing him up, worst case scenario is he slides and hes at full screen again. whatever.

Yeah I play this match all the time since my brother is a batman main. The best thing we have in that matchup is the pressure after hard knockdown IMO because (like you said) batman's wakeup game is his weakest element. I just try to get the first hit when possible, hopefully get a life lead from combo/5050 damage and then slow play it and make sure to only play purely reactionary when he is trying to get in (IE never initiate the offense with guns unless he is full screen with no trait, let him dash or shoot bats and react accordingly. I have found that initiating gun offense against a good batman is a bad idea). I think this match is absolutely in batman's clear advantage though IMO. One other thing that is really good against batman (since so many of his strings can be D1 interrupted) is using D1 xx sword spin (since it is safe and can be hitconfirmed into a MB for a full combo punish). The worst is when I dont get the sword spin to come out though (damn D1, db3 input, I still need practice to get it perfectly consistent lol) because then he blows you up...

Its a fun match because it is so challenging, I enjoy playing it even though i generally lose more than I win in this matchup (which my brother SKG can attest to, but he still hates fighting deathstroke I think lol)

 

[G4S Silent Jay]

That's literally all they nerfed. If they didn't nerf that, nothing would be nerfed other than the recovery time of air guns.

The patch notes would like to have a word with you

Quick Fire nerfed by 5 frames
(Air) Quick Fire nerfed by 11 frames
Machine Gun nerfed by 5 frames
Low Shots nerfed by 13 frames
Chip on Quick Fire nerfed by 50% (from 2.76 to 1.38)
Chip on Low Shots nerfed by 50% (from 2.76 to 1.38)
Meter built on block with Quick Fire nerfed by 33% (from 19 for full meter to 28 for full meter)
Meter built on block with Low Shots nerfed by 33% (from 19 for full meter to 28 for full meter)


Just sayin, he got hit with more than just a few frames of recovery on two moves

 

[Mikman360]

Those frames are blockstun frames. The first 4 are just different ways of saying "blockstun nerf on guns"
The chip damage nerfs are the next 2
Meter gain is directly relevant to chip damage

Basically, that whole list is literally saying chip and blockstun nerfs.

 

[G4S Silent Jay]

You beat KF at a range, MB QF punish icebergs, Low Shots dodge axes. She has to come to you.
Check all blocked slides with D1. Follow up with a proper read on the opponents reaction to D1. Do they try to D1 back? Ji3. Do they jump back? Ji1. Do the block low? B2.
Pick Watchtower every game. Throw drones. Slide and iceberg cant touch you up there.
Finish combos with D1 xx Flip, do 1 dash, and F3. If they wakeup slide, you dodge it. If they dont, F3 either hits or gives you a free 50/50.
If they ALWAYS wake up with slide, dash in, jump back 1, full combo punish.

I think you're kind of over simplifying this MU. because KF definitely isn't, as you put it, "free as fuck".

I feel like iceburg and daggers don't come into play at all until the DS player does gunshots, and then the DS takes thier full-screen punish since I don;t know of any good KF player that just throws those out.

Reacting to slide up-close isn't that easy, so you have to kind of block low, and just not get crossed up, overheaded, or hit with a throw for waiting on slide to be blocked. And if you just D1 whenever she slides, the MB F3 you eat isn't gonna be too fun, especially when that lands you in her vortex. Which again, really not THAT easy to block. And with reads after slide, if you guess wrong, vortex.

I kind of hate the suggestion of "always pick -insert stage here-", because in certain torunaments, you will NEVER get choice of stage, and at others, you could get beat out on a 50/50, it being random, or if you manage to switch the stage for game 2 for losing, because then it gets switched on you for game 3. And mind you, she gets those drones too, and has an airdash to make them a bit easier to grab.


However, making them respect that they can;t slide wake-up without eating 30%+ (I always punish slides with jb3, 323, f23 xx Flip), THEN you can open her up to DS's own vortex, but that's something you can't do too much because if she wake-up properly out of it, you'll eat the slide coming down (it does have a pretty high hitbox on it).

I really think this is a 5-5 after her nerfs, but even then, you still have to out in work because it is a MU where you can't really get away with zoning her, and her rushdown options are better than average.

 

[G4S Silent Jay]

Those frames are blockstun frames. The first 4 are just different ways of saying "blockstun nerf on guns"
The chip damage nerfs are the next 2
Meter gain is directly relevant to chip damage

Basically, that whole list is literally saying chip and blockstun nerfs.

It's still an overall snowball effect from those "just two nerfs". Which again, I will still argue hurt him and took him down from a top-10 candidate to mid-tier for no reason other than online lag. Which would have been solved with a netcode buff the game still desperately needs.

Not trying to even go on about the nerfs and how they hurt him. My salt about that is well-since passed. But I will at least admit it happened and it hurt when it comes up.

 

[G4S Silent Jay]

i think deathstroke is viable and still people dont know shit about most matchups in this game and sound retarded when they talk about them. honestly nobody ever accounts for stages and everyiones just like LOL LOW GUNS PUNISHABLE. im a sub par fighting game player in general and i do just alright against Darth Arma. haven't beaten him but ive sure done alright. we've played the matchup almost every week since the game has been out. you have to chip him on his approach and make a read as soon as hes in range to do something that can actually hit thats not batarangs or trait bats. and make sure you are used to blocking batman

as for superman i definitely think thats even, just people suck at baiting out normals and blowing it up. he can jump out of f23 breath and jb3 a lot of the followups. guns are really good against him until he has super, and honestly using super as superman is kinda stupid unless its going to kill you or put you at less than 10%. honestly in this match all he has is f2 and super. you can easy counterzone him if he tries. i dont see how its a bad matchup really. people are just like LOL SUPERMAN

Somebody who gets it!!!

 

[Mikman360]

I think you're kind of over simplifying this MU. because KF definitely isn't, as you put it, "free as fuck".

I feel like iceburg and daggers don't come into play at all until the DS player does gunshots, and then the DS takes thier full-screen punish since I don;t know of any good KF player that just throws those out.

Reacting to slide up-close isn't that easy, so you have to kind of block low, and just not get crossed up, overheaded, or hit with a throw for waiting on slide to be blocked. And if you just D1 whenever she slides, the MB F3 you eat isn't gonna be too fun, especially when that lands you in her vortex. Which again, really not THAT easy to block. And with reads after slide, if you guess wrong, vortex.

I kind of hate the suggestion of "always pick -insert stage here-", because in certain torunaments, you will NEVER get choice of stage, and at others, you could get beat out on a 50/50, it being random, or if you manage to switch the stage for game 2 for losing, because then it gets switched on you for game 3. And mind you, she gets those drones too, and has an airdash to make them a bit easier to grab.

However, making them respect that they can;t slide wake-up without eating 30%+ (I always punish slides with jb3, 323, f23 xx Flip), THEN you can open her up to DS's own vortex, but that's something you can't do too much because if she wake-up properly out of it, you'll eat the slide coming down (it does have a pretty high hitbox on it).

I really think this is a 5-5 after her nerfs, but even then, you still have to out in work because it is a MU where you can't really get away with zoning her, and her rushdown options are better than average.

Yes I did oversimplify, because I wasn't trying to go through a huge matchup breakdown and wanted to give just general tips lol. Maybe I'm pushing it by saying "free" but I do like the matchup.

If both players are going to be on the opposite sides of the screen doing nothing until the other person decides to shoot something, DS will more likely win. KF cant chip for ****, and punishing LGS with Iceberg is harder than punishing Iceberg with QF. Meter is extremely important in this matchup for both in this scenario.

Stop giving KF the positive options up close. Her mid range game isn't that great unless she wants to throw out raw slides, in which she ends up being negative. There are much more threatening characters at a melee range, DS holds up here. If she MB F3s, I'm pretty sure (haven't tested) D1 xx Spin can stuff it. Her F3 is reactable, get some cat-like reflexes.

DS controls interactables like no other. Air dash is hardly a threat. And tournament rules or not, if you get the option to pick, pick it 24/7, that's all I meant by that statement. If you don't, don't worry, the matchup is still winnable. I just go by the philosophy to push whatever advantage you can get whenever you can.

If she delay slide wakeups, you can choose not to do an air attack at all (less recovery time when landing), or even try to "dodge" the slide with an air QF. Even then, if she's no longer instant slide wakeup-ing, then you've taken away one of her most reliable options.

It's still an overall snowball effect from those "just two nerfs". Which again, I will still argue hurt him and took him down from a top-10 candidate to mid-tier for no reason other than online lag. Which would have been solved with a netcode buff the game still desperately needs.

Not trying to even go on about the nerfs and how they hurt him. My salt about that is well-since passed. But I will at least admit it happened and it hurt when it comes up.

My point was, if they took away the "chip and blockstun nerfs" as you mentioned earlier, that would leave him with virtually no nerfs at all.

 

[JokeStroke]

Playing a FK offline when low guns and quickfire are punishable with iceberg... lol

the frame data on her d2 is wrong too ... it's fast as fuck and beats a lot of your pokes

that match definitely is not free

 

[Axel_Redd]

Disagree. They changed the whole SFxT game because there were a ton of scrubs complaining how OP fireballs were (they're not). They've nerfed too many characters in SF4 just because people hate them--Akuma, Seth, for example--and they even nerfed the FADC mechanic. A lot of the suggestions made to balance SFxT and SF4 were shit, it was just a result of people not putting work in. And honestly, I think SF4 has the worst average player skill. Never seen so many awful players in my life.

i was thinking more so marvel vs capcom, but alright, Btw whats the most recent edition of SF4?

 

[Axel_Redd]

since i can't seem to edit previous posts, how do u perform DS safe jumpins on hkd again?

 

[G4S Silent Jay]

Yes I did oversimplify, because I wasn't trying to go through a huge matchup breakdown and wanted to give just general tips lol. Maybe I'm pushing it by saying "free" but I do like the matchup.

If both players are going to be on the opposite sides of the screen doing nothing until the other person decides to shoot something, DS will more likely win. KF cant chip for ****, and punishing LGS with Iceberg is harder than punishing Iceberg with QF. Meter is extremely important in this matchup for both in this scenario.

Stop giving KF the positive options up close. Her mid range game isn't that great unless she wants to throw out raw slides, in which she ends up being negative. There are much more threatening characters at a melee range, DS holds up here. If she MB F3s, I'm pretty sure (haven't tested) D1 xx Spin can stuff it. Her F3 is reactable, get some cat-like reflexes.

DS controls interactables like no other. Air dash is hardly a threat. And tournament rules or not, if you get the option to pick, pick it 24/7, that's all I meant by that statement. If you don't, don't worry, the matchup is still winnable. I just go by the philosophy to push whatever advantage you can get whenever you can.

If she delay slide wakeups, you can choose not to do an air attack at all (less recovery time when landing), or even try to "dodge" the slide with an air QF. Even then, if she's no longer instant slide wakeup-ing, then you've taken away one of her most reliable options.



My point was, if they took away the "chip and blockstun nerfs" as you mentioned earlier, that would leave him with virtually no nerfs at all.

Alright, fair enough. Must've misread it or misinterpreted what you said then to something.

And I understand taking the advantage whenever possible. Hell, when I got Ferris against a Hawkgirl as Game one, you know damn well I was fine with keeping it hahahaha

And at the Mid-range, KF's slide can still be a threat I've noticed. Well, unless you wanna play defensively. But then you're kinda stuck doing not much of anything.


But I meant she can snatch them more easily on a HKD and get the OTG damage off them. making her lower damage output as more of a threat again since it gets the boost. However, I feel like DS does better in the reactor where he can abuse the fuck out of the lazer and the drones coming from the right side. But that really goes for most MUs.

 

[G4S Silent Jay]

i was thinking more so marvel vs capcom, but alright, Btw whats the most recent edition of SF4?

Ultra Street Fighter 4 is coming out soon.

 

[LordChozo]

Wow, I missed a lot in this thread. But half of that was actually about Street Fighter (?) so I guess no harm done.

A quick note about the troublesome Nightwing matchup: When you're at range and block a ground blast from staff, remember to continue blocking low for a moment. If you don't see the immediate followup, jump forward - another regular ground blast is probably on the way, and you'll be out of AA range if not. However, if he MBs the ground blast, make sure you continue blocking afterward for a second ground blast followup. It's a full screen frame trap (NW is +18 after the MB blast so the next one is free). I used to get blown up trying to jump after the MB blast all the time. But otherwise, yeah, get in on him.

Escrima though is a cakewalk.