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Match-up Discussion I cant handle good Nightwing

Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Posting this because every "high level" Nightwing player I face tends to beat me. I understand how he works and what he's doing and I've played a bunch of matches against the character...I just cant seem to win.

Seems to me there are 3 layers of Dick.

1. Up close he'll be in staff stance which you cannot counter poke. Most of the time I'll get stuck in block strings and be forced to blow all my meter push blocking, only for him to make his way back in eventually and I'm back to square 1. Or......

2. Jump range. He'll switch to escrima and space me out. I'm forced to block wing dings all fucking day. Eventually I'll get hit with the delayed meter burn version which knocks you passed jump range in which case....

3. Full screen he'll go back to staff stance and out zone me with ground sparks. You cannot trade with this. You will always lose. Jumping = Flying Grayson = Back to eating more staff sparks.


Dont get me wrong. I've won a fair share of matches. It takes a ton of patience and usually a mistake on their part. The big problem is that the Nightwing player will usually establish a life lead and then outzone me, or I will get life lead and be unable to keep him out. I'm always forced to play on his terms and I'm fuckign tired of it. I'm going to break my fucking controller.

Someone tell me how to properly face this character. Please!
 
SilverKeyMan

SilverKeyMan

Dropping Combos like a MotherFucker!
What about Aquaman's trident ranged combo? That should work while Nightwing is fallinng after blocked Wingdings.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Jimmypotato said:
on blocked wing ding you should be able to dash in and punish him.
Click to expand...
99% of the time on block, he'll delay meter burn the wing ding, it causes enough block stun for him to land safely. That or you eat the MB part of the winding and youre back passed jump distance.

You try to dash, you die.
 
BigMilk

BigMilk

Former Divine Power Abuser
If you think staff is broken then you dont understand the character. However it is a pain to deal with.

Agressively approaching NW makes it hard to space wingdings. Dont have to pushblock unless he uses mb staff spin. Backdashes when he is advantage/punishes & pressure when he its negative. Jump ground blasts and counterzone. Jump outside of flying grayson range.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
No. Just no. I hate Nightwing.

I've tried back dashing his staff attacks with minimal success. It doesnt matter when he can get back in with ease and his god damn normals are better than yours. He stuffs every fucking attack, and when he actually blocks any of your strings, he can counter poke into combo. You'd have to be a jedi to predict if he's going overhead or low.

Never mention counter zoning again. You cannot use a projectile attack against him as Aquaman. He blocks and reversal attacks you with the staff ground spark.

Where the hell are all the super high level Aquaman players at? How do you do that fucking @ sign shit to get their attention?


Edit: Frustrated because I went 1-22 against this Nightwing player I know.
 
JaredL

JaredL

Aww shit <REDACTED DUE TO FEELINGS> its Shapzam
Staffwing feels like a better aquaman sometimes honestly.

Better poking and range.

Counters your zoning.
 
DuskAlloy

DuskAlloy

You don't got the cash, You don't get the ass
JaredL said:
Staffwing feels like a better aquaman sometimes honestly.

Better poking and range.

Counters your zoning.
Click to expand...
With the poking and range nightwing becomes free to interactables, he is just a sitting duck
 
DuskAlloy

DuskAlloy

You don't got the cash, You don't get the ass
JaredL said:
That he does. But in the aquaman match up... staffwing is tits.
Click to expand...
Well there has to be something that makes staff S tier, so if have a decent match up against the fish fucker is it, the I will take it
 
DuskAlloy

DuskAlloy

You don't got the cash, You don't get the ass
You can dash the first spark and if he MB then dash again and you will avoid that one btw
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Yeah I know all about the matchup. The guy I play with tells me everything he knows about his weaknesses. Exploiting them is another issue.

DuskAlloy said:
Also him in staff loses to most characters that have good air control: Superman, Black Adam, Green Lantern...
Click to expand...

That's a fact. I can beat him with my Green Lantern. It's still a tough match, but way easier when he has to respect Oa's Rocket.
I can also give him a hard time with my Doomsday. That's all beside the point. I want to beat with with my main...AQUAMAN.
 
Ben Reed

Ben Reed

Marine Biologist
Name v.5.0

I almost entirely agree with you. This matchup kinda sucks for Aquaman.

One thing I CAN tell you though is that while From The Deep isn't particularly GOOD at zoning Nightwing, it's not ACTUALLY punishable in either stance. Despite the way it looks, staff ground pound CAN'T actually punish FTD on block, even as a reversal. But of course since FTD is so negative, Nightwing's next staff ground pound can ONLY be backdashed. If you try to jump or dash out of it, you will get stuffed. And of course the backdash recovery is (a) too long for Aquaman to punish and (b) you MIGHT get blown up by staff ground pound MB anyway (2nd hit whiff punishes your backdash). I don't know for sure on that one cause I didn't try the MB version. So at the very least you only have to take almost-guaranteed CHIP for a blocked FTD (if Nightwing is in staff).

FTD is of course completely safe against full-screen escrima Nightwing, but of course he moves so fast in escrima that you'll typically only get 1 blocked FTD on him before he gets to Wingdings range. Man, I hate Wingdings.

Main thing that makes Nightwing SUPER annoying to block is that he defies normal block logic in a way. The hell kind of asshole can do not 1, not 2, but THREE lows back-to-back in an airtight blockstring (in THIS game, that is)? Even KF doesn't have it that good, lol, she gets, like, TWO. You get so committed to holding down so as to not get clowned by staff ground pound MB that he can sneak staggered or string overheads on you almost at his leisure. I'm getting a bit better at blocking it, but it's still a huge pain in the ass.

His staff d1 being 6f is kinda bullshit too. A lot of times even when you're actually at advantage (say you make him block f13), he can disrespect anything short of a d1 afterwards with his own staff d1. Why the hell is a d1, even mid, that's plus on block 6f startup?

One kinda randomish thing you might try depending on the player is to neutral jump more when you're neutral at midscreen. Just try to stay at about starting position's width away from Nightwing and play games with vertical j2 to stop his advance or empty neutral jump if you think he's gonna get wise and try to AA with staff 2/staff 3/Flying Grayson or something like that. This was the advice I was given by a Nightwing player in the FL Facebook group...yeah, I don't think he sees the full picture of this matchup, either. But honestly this matchup is so annoying that I figure you might as well experiment with this tactic in casuals to see WHAT reaction, if any, it provokes from the Nightwing player.

I still am really struggling to find good consistent answers to zone Nightwing effectively at mid-range. Until then I guess I can only say to learn how to anti-air staff jump moves at different ranges with d2 (it's annoying, but worth learning, saved my ass a bunch of times when I was cornered) and watch your feet.
 
Name v.5.0

Name v.5.0

Iowa's Finest.
Some good info there. Thanks.

I'll try to throw in some more neutral jump 2's...not to be a pessimist, but he's going to stuff it. :-P

Staffwing is just too fucking safe and Aquaman isnt safe enough. That's the real problem here. I really think this is a 6-4 MU for Nightwing.
 
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