Captain Oxygen
The end of one combo is the beginning of another
A lot of people don't understand how to fight against Lobo, a lot of the time they fall for simple frame traps like B12, D1 or tick throws like 21, command grab. Most people don't understand the matchup very well. So here a guide on how to fight against Lobo, Blue text for important notes
Honestly, Lobo loses to every top tier character (except probably Aqua and maybe Batgirl) and a lot of "irrelevant" characters like Lex and Grundy.
And another thing is that, because of the lack of Lobo players most people don't understand what to do in the matchup
I'm not gonna claim Lobo is bottom 10, but he's only around mid/low mid tier
His big issues are that
- His Mixups are Unsafe without Meter/Trait
- His Defensive tools aren't very good.
- His Wakeup is poor
- He gets out footsied by a lot of the cast
- He needs Meter to do damage/pressure people
Lobo's mixup game is good in the sense that he has a lot of options on his mixups, however they are unsafe, and without meter/trait the options are unsafe and have very poor risk/reward. Lobo can cancel any string/normal into a 50/50 or 33/33/33 with Low Hook/Shot, Hook Charge, Grab.
For the most part against Lobo you just block low unless you see the overhead.
Lobo's 21 string is his best mixup string in that he has 5 options off of it; he can go
21 hook charge
21 low hook/shot
21 grab
2 grab
2 low shot/hook
Hook Charge is only an option I'd do on a read. It's unsafe if i don't have meter, and even when I do meter burn it, it only does 15%
Low Hook is punishable up close by everyone (and 1/5 of the cast at any range) and Lowshot is unsafe by everyone (except Grundy) unless i have trait. Low shot/hook is a terrible option because on hit I get a measly 10% and on block I get full combo punished
Grab is an option that only works in a high pressure situation. While it seems hard to react to a 19 frame move. The way you should go about blocking Lobo's mixups is to Always look for grab and react with a raw B3 when you see it coming while you block either high/low. Unless you are in a high pressure situation where you don't think of grab, you should always be ready for the grab with a raw B3 punish while covering either Low/Overhead. If you read a tick throw, DO NOT JUMP. Every character in the game universally punish grab ticks with a Raw B3 and get a full combo.
To which if your blocking Low/Overhead pay attention to whether I have trait or meter
If I don't have trait I'm less inclined to go for the low option, If I don't have meter I'm less inclined to go for the overhead option, If I have neither chances are I want the grab.
And another big thing is Lobo seriously needs to save his bar
his combos do Nothing without meter. And the risk reward for most of Lobo's mixups are awful. On hit I'll end up getting less than 12% and on block I get combo punished
Without Meter, I can't combo off the Low starter, the only way I get big damage without meter is from the 25f overhead B2U1.
People get really scared of the pressure Lobo has. Lobo's main sources of pressure aren't that great.
Lobo's main pressure tools are his MB hook charge, B12 and 113 strings. Lobo's J1 has great blockstun and you can't d1 out of J1,B12. You can backdash it though.
MB Hook Charge is +3
B12 is +4
113 is +6
90% of the Time Hook Charge has enough pushback to where Lobo can't get a d1, meaning your free to game ham on him or backdash.
B12 and 113 are backdashable on the last hit (depends on the distance from Lobo)
This means if your backdashing all of Lobo's pressure he has to commit to a backdash punish which means your free to poke back. Lobo has trouble dealing with people backdashing his pressure
If I have to commit to a backdash punish, not only do I have to use meter to keep it safe, you can D1 me back if you know I'm gonna go for one.
Since lobo's options on his mixups usually don't lead into any big damage. Most of the time Lobo is simply setting up the MB grab, which is his main source of big damage. The main way of getting it reliably is from a knockdown. If you know Lobo's going for the grab and not a less scary option you can wakeup with almost anything
For example, if I knock down Martian Manhunter and the MMH player is expecting the grab, DONT wakeup with psychic push. Wakeup with Martian Grab and punish me with a full combo.
Lobo has to deal with a lot of casts great wakeups while Lobo's wakeup is not fully invincible
Hook Charge has a good amount of invincibility. But every character can stuff it with a well timed normal, or even just jumping. Hook Charge doesn't have a hitbox right above him so simply jump and avoid the first hit. Airborne F3's work really well for this too.
Lastly Lobo's footsies and movement are sub par. Yes, Lobo has an amazing forward dash, but thats it. Lobo's jump is very floaty, his backdash is garbage and his walkspeed in nonexistent. It means he has to either Dash in or go for Low Hooks/Hook Charges. Which he doesn't wanna do because Hook Charge wastes meter and Low hook is jumpable and combo'd.
Lobo's J1 can be hard to antiair/air to air for a lot of character. But because of his jump, Lobo gets trip guarded easily
Lobo's footsies with standing 3 are good, but a lot of character out range Standing 3 with faster footsie tools that go farther. The only good thing about standing 3 is that it antiairs and catches dashes at the same time. Unless it's a really bad jump, people shouldn't be scared of Standing 3. Standing 3 as an antiair is overrated. It does 7% when I antiair you with it. From a lot of heights it won't combo into hook charge.
Lobo WANTS to antiair you with his D2 so he can get a combo, but Lobo's D2 is mediorce. It doesn't low his hitbox and the area it covers is very small. Standing 3 is good for footsies and J1 is hard to antiair/air to air, but because of his walkspeed, jump, and only okay antiairs Lobo gets outfootsied pretty easily.
Lobo loses to characters who heavily outzone him, he has trouble establishing pressure on. Characters with amazing wakeup movement like Batman,Superman. And anyone who heavily rushes him down (especially with armor) like Grundy and Doomsday.
Here is my current MU chart (as of the making of this thread) with Lobo and I won't put any numbers, only who has the
advantage/neutral.
Lobo/Aquaman
Lobo/Ares
Lobo/Bane
Lobo/Batgirl
Lobo/Batman
Lobo/Black Adam
Lobo/Catwoman
Lobo/Cyborg
Lobo/Doomsday
Lobo/Deathstroke
Lobo/Flash
Lobo/Green Arrow
Lobo/Green Lantern
Lobo/Grundy
Lobo/Harley Quinn
Lobo/Hawkgirl
Lobo/Joker
Lobo/Killer Frost
Lobo/Lex Luthor
Lobo/MMH
Lobo/Raven
Lobo/Scorpion
Lobo/Shazam
Lobo/Sinestro
Lobo/Superman
Lobo/Wonder Woman
Lobo/Zatanna
Lobo/Zod
So with only 7 winning matchups, most of them on shitters, and 12 losing matchups. Lobo has trouble with a lot of the cast. He loses to every top tier (with the exception of possibly having a slight edge over Aquaman) so in tournament Lobo has trouble. Even in the winning/even matchups Lobo takes a lot of work/execution.
Honestly, Lobo loses to every top tier character (except probably Aqua and maybe Batgirl) and a lot of "irrelevant" characters like Lex and Grundy.
And another thing is that, because of the lack of Lobo players most people don't understand what to do in the matchup
I'm not gonna claim Lobo is bottom 10, but he's only around mid/low mid tier
His big issues are that
- His Mixups are Unsafe without Meter/Trait
- His Defensive tools aren't very good.
- His Wakeup is poor
- He gets out footsied by a lot of the cast
- He needs Meter to do damage/pressure people
Lobo's mixup game is good in the sense that he has a lot of options on his mixups, however they are unsafe, and without meter/trait the options are unsafe and have very poor risk/reward. Lobo can cancel any string/normal into a 50/50 or 33/33/33 with Low Hook/Shot, Hook Charge, Grab.
For the most part against Lobo you just block low unless you see the overhead.
Lobo's 21 string is his best mixup string in that he has 5 options off of it; he can go
21 hook charge
21 low hook/shot
21 grab
2 grab
2 low shot/hook
Hook Charge is only an option I'd do on a read. It's unsafe if i don't have meter, and even when I do meter burn it, it only does 15%
Low Hook is punishable up close by everyone (and 1/5 of the cast at any range) and Lowshot is unsafe by everyone (except Grundy) unless i have trait. Low shot/hook is a terrible option because on hit I get a measly 10% and on block I get full combo punished
Grab is an option that only works in a high pressure situation. While it seems hard to react to a 19 frame move. The way you should go about blocking Lobo's mixups is to Always look for grab and react with a raw B3 when you see it coming while you block either high/low. Unless you are in a high pressure situation where you don't think of grab, you should always be ready for the grab with a raw B3 punish while covering either Low/Overhead. If you read a tick throw, DO NOT JUMP. Every character in the game universally punish grab ticks with a Raw B3 and get a full combo.
To which if your blocking Low/Overhead pay attention to whether I have trait or meter
If I don't have trait I'm less inclined to go for the low option, If I don't have meter I'm less inclined to go for the overhead option, If I have neither chances are I want the grab.
And another big thing is Lobo seriously needs to save his bar
his combos do Nothing without meter. And the risk reward for most of Lobo's mixups are awful. On hit I'll end up getting less than 12% and on block I get combo punished
Without Meter, I can't combo off the Low starter, the only way I get big damage without meter is from the 25f overhead B2U1.
People get really scared of the pressure Lobo has. Lobo's main sources of pressure aren't that great.
Lobo's main pressure tools are his MB hook charge, B12 and 113 strings. Lobo's J1 has great blockstun and you can't d1 out of J1,B12. You can backdash it though.
MB Hook Charge is +3
B12 is +4
113 is +6
90% of the Time Hook Charge has enough pushback to where Lobo can't get a d1, meaning your free to game ham on him or backdash.
B12 and 113 are backdashable on the last hit (depends on the distance from Lobo)
This means if your backdashing all of Lobo's pressure he has to commit to a backdash punish which means your free to poke back. Lobo has trouble dealing with people backdashing his pressure
If I have to commit to a backdash punish, not only do I have to use meter to keep it safe, you can D1 me back if you know I'm gonna go for one.
Since lobo's options on his mixups usually don't lead into any big damage. Most of the time Lobo is simply setting up the MB grab, which is his main source of big damage. The main way of getting it reliably is from a knockdown. If you know Lobo's going for the grab and not a less scary option you can wakeup with almost anything
For example, if I knock down Martian Manhunter and the MMH player is expecting the grab, DONT wakeup with psychic push. Wakeup with Martian Grab and punish me with a full combo.
Lobo has to deal with a lot of casts great wakeups while Lobo's wakeup is not fully invincible
Hook Charge has a good amount of invincibility. But every character can stuff it with a well timed normal, or even just jumping. Hook Charge doesn't have a hitbox right above him so simply jump and avoid the first hit. Airborne F3's work really well for this too.
Lastly Lobo's footsies and movement are sub par. Yes, Lobo has an amazing forward dash, but thats it. Lobo's jump is very floaty, his backdash is garbage and his walkspeed in nonexistent. It means he has to either Dash in or go for Low Hooks/Hook Charges. Which he doesn't wanna do because Hook Charge wastes meter and Low hook is jumpable and combo'd.
Lobo's J1 can be hard to antiair/air to air for a lot of character. But because of his jump, Lobo gets trip guarded easily
Lobo's footsies with standing 3 are good, but a lot of character out range Standing 3 with faster footsie tools that go farther. The only good thing about standing 3 is that it antiairs and catches dashes at the same time. Unless it's a really bad jump, people shouldn't be scared of Standing 3. Standing 3 as an antiair is overrated. It does 7% when I antiair you with it. From a lot of heights it won't combo into hook charge.
Lobo WANTS to antiair you with his D2 so he can get a combo, but Lobo's D2 is mediorce. It doesn't low his hitbox and the area it covers is very small. Standing 3 is good for footsies and J1 is hard to antiair/air to air, but because of his walkspeed, jump, and only okay antiairs Lobo gets outfootsied pretty easily.
Lobo loses to characters who heavily outzone him, he has trouble establishing pressure on. Characters with amazing wakeup movement like Batman,Superman. And anyone who heavily rushes him down (especially with armor) like Grundy and Doomsday.
Here is my current MU chart (as of the making of this thread) with Lobo and I won't put any numbers, only who has the
advantage/neutral.
Lobo/Aquaman
Lobo/Ares
Lobo/Bane
Lobo/Batgirl
Lobo/Batman
Lobo/Black Adam
Lobo/Catwoman
Lobo/Cyborg
Lobo/Doomsday
Lobo/Deathstroke
Lobo/Flash
Lobo/Green Arrow
Lobo/Green Lantern
Lobo/Grundy
Lobo/Harley Quinn
Lobo/Hawkgirl
Lobo/Joker
Lobo/Killer Frost
Lobo/Lex Luthor
Lobo/MMH
Lobo/Raven
Lobo/Scorpion
Lobo/Shazam
Lobo/Sinestro
Lobo/Superman
Lobo/Wonder Woman
Lobo/Zatanna
Lobo/Zod
So with only 7 winning matchups, most of them on shitters, and 12 losing matchups. Lobo has trouble with a lot of the cast. He loses to every top tier (with the exception of possibly having a slight edge over Aquaman) so in tournament Lobo has trouble. Even in the winning/even matchups Lobo takes a lot of work/execution.
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it's not just Flash i lose to, In tournament I've lost to Supes, Martian, Bane. All of them are really tough matchups for Lobo to deal with.
...umm...umm... your FACE is irrelevant! ha!
