IrishMantis
Most humble shit talker ever!!!
Hi guys
Okay so you probably seen how Ronins B11 really locks down somebody as good as Cage to one of his only option is just a frame F3 trade, so I thought to see what it would look like on somebody with no range like Jacqui and here it is.
Things to note first:
I purposely turned off Meter as in a situation like this you should only judge from the resources that is available at all times.
I recorded the AI do B11, B112 just show that it beats the jumping options too.
In a real game the Ronin player can easily confirm the 2 from B112 otherwise he could just do B11 again.
When Jaqcui jumps back and backdashes she cannot whiff punish as she recovers in time and B112 is only -5 on block.
What you don't see is he is not just limited to B11, he can B1,B11xxsparks B112, B21, B212+4 , D3, F1 etc... And that's not even counting his sword toss and Call back mind games too.
Personally I think Ronin might be one of the best in the current version of the game, but none of that is what this thread is about.
I'm just showing what B11 does to somebody like Jaqcui and maybe more than likely other chars who I didn't check.
Like personally this is just shy of being Mileenas B12 and it's even better in some ways, but Paulo has hinted in streams her B12 will be getting normalised so why should this go under the radar.
As much I would like to call this an infinite I really can't for a few reasons:
1. There is that one Suicide option, like even though doing a completely risky empty back jump is her only option it still rules this out as being an infinite.
2. B11 has slight pushback each time so maybe after about 3or so reps from touching (confirmed by Stosn) he would eventually be out of range. But he can easily fix this option with a micro run that would probably still beat all of Jacquis options except for jumping out of the corner or if he wants play extra safe he can do B11 Ex Sparks and use them plus frames to close in the distance with 0 risk.
Oh and about Jaqcuis only options here is what happens if he delays his B11 or react to her Jump.
And before anybody says take the hit ....
Yep back to square one
Now the question is how to fix this issue without butchering his B11?
I have absolutely no idea!
Making it slightly - or slower start up would really only grant Jacqui the ability to neutral jump and jump out all of her other options would still get beating.
Hell even if they made it a high it would still not effect it much as you can see from the video the 2nd hit beats all low profile stuff.
The only thing I can kind of think of is add a lot of pushback or do the opposite and adjust some of the frames and conpletely remove the pushback so you can close the gap between reps.
I honestly don't know.
And come on before people comment about nerfing his 11f huge range easy to hit confirm hard to whiff punish 0 on block mid! you all well know he has 3 other really good mid attacks in his arsenal such as a 12f huge distance safe Oh/low string that he can make plus by sword drop so let's try not go there
Now although I got 2nd opinions on this video covering everything they all agreed I covered everything so I made sure I got approval before posting but I'm open to new options I could of missed.
So I advise people in TYM to check this on your char and see what options he/she has got it will be pretty interesting.
Last thing, I feel I have got this on the frame and close to perfect distance so please if you are going to do a F/T community and make a video telling me I'm wrong and these options actually work please for the love of god get the timing and spacing right.
If Jacqui is beating it with a jump out, jump attack or making Ronins attack whiff by jump back punching you are spacing/timing it wrong.
INB4 "just X-Ray or armour from your infinite supply of meter bro"
Let's not fall under the illusion "poor Ronins Ex callback only does a single hit instead of 100 in the beta
" when there could potentially be something far more Sinester hidden under.
Ronin is already in the scary hands of Hayati and IDock but if somebody like Foxy or Reo decide to pick up this char later on in the games life...... Damn!!!!
I won't Tag Paulo just yet I can leave to one of you guys or see how this plays out first incase I overlooked something.
If mods feel this is more appropriate in the Ronin threads be my guest.
Edit: here's an upload from As a said above somebody really good as Cages perspective
Similar to Jaqui has to make a suicide read of jumping back ot trade a suicide special
Which is really weird and shows you how much range Ronin has B11 beats his reversal SK!!!!
That's an 11f normal beating a 10 frame reversal(reversals shave off a frame)
But atleast Cages floaty AF back jump can get get him a combo punish on a read which is still silly
But yep Jacqui has it the worst
NOTE: This is NOT Jaqcui specific!!!
I just showcased Jacqui as an extreme example. the point of this thread was share awareness and find other options which Panic mode found shotgun blast trades but basically leaves her in the same position
I'm not being arsehole so you shouldn't either, this part prob does not matter as its evidence on what I said I hoped not to happen in the OP happened in the posts.
I'm not saying Im right I'm opening a discussion not factual. That's why I did not tag Paulo just yet
Okay so you probably seen how Ronins B11 really locks down somebody as good as Cage to one of his only option is just a frame F3 trade, so I thought to see what it would look like on somebody with no range like Jacqui and here it is.
Things to note first:
I purposely turned off Meter as in a situation like this you should only judge from the resources that is available at all times.
I recorded the AI do B11, B112 just show that it beats the jumping options too.
In a real game the Ronin player can easily confirm the 2 from B112 otherwise he could just do B11 again.
When Jaqcui jumps back and backdashes she cannot whiff punish as she recovers in time and B112 is only -5 on block.
What you don't see is he is not just limited to B11, he can B1,B11xxsparks B112, B21, B212+4 , D3, F1 etc... And that's not even counting his sword toss and Call back mind games too.
Personally I think Ronin might be one of the best in the current version of the game, but none of that is what this thread is about.
I'm just showing what B11 does to somebody like Jaqcui and maybe more than likely other chars who I didn't check.
Like personally this is just shy of being Mileenas B12 and it's even better in some ways, but Paulo has hinted in streams her B12 will be getting normalised so why should this go under the radar.
As much I would like to call this an infinite I really can't for a few reasons:
1. There is that one Suicide option, like even though doing a completely risky empty back jump is her only option it still rules this out as being an infinite.
2. B11 has slight pushback each time so maybe after about 3or so reps from touching (confirmed by Stosn) he would eventually be out of range. But he can easily fix this option with a micro run that would probably still beat all of Jacquis options except for jumping out of the corner or if he wants play extra safe he can do B11 Ex Sparks and use them plus frames to close in the distance with 0 risk.
Oh and about Jaqcuis only options here is what happens if he delays his B11 or react to her Jump.
And before anybody says take the hit ....
Now the question is how to fix this issue without butchering his B11?
I have absolutely no idea!
Making it slightly - or slower start up would really only grant Jacqui the ability to neutral jump and jump out all of her other options would still get beating.
Hell even if they made it a high it would still not effect it much as you can see from the video the 2nd hit beats all low profile stuff.
The only thing I can kind of think of is add a lot of pushback or do the opposite and adjust some of the frames and conpletely remove the pushback so you can close the gap between reps.
I honestly don't know.
And come on before people comment about nerfing his 11f huge range easy to hit confirm hard to whiff punish 0 on block mid! you all well know he has 3 other really good mid attacks in his arsenal such as a 12f huge distance safe Oh/low string that he can make plus by sword drop so let's try not go there
Now although I got 2nd opinions on this video covering everything they all agreed I covered everything so I made sure I got approval before posting but I'm open to new options I could of missed.
So I advise people in TYM to check this on your char and see what options he/she has got it will be pretty interesting.
Last thing, I feel I have got this on the frame and close to perfect distance so please if you are going to do a F/T community and make a video telling me I'm wrong and these options actually work please for the love of god get the timing and spacing right.
If Jacqui is beating it with a jump out, jump attack or making Ronins attack whiff by jump back punching you are spacing/timing it wrong.
INB4 "just X-Ray or armour from your infinite supply of meter bro"
Let's not fall under the illusion "poor Ronins Ex callback only does a single hit instead of 100 in the beta
" when there could potentially be something far more Sinester hidden under.Ronin is already in the scary hands of Hayati and IDock but if somebody like Foxy or Reo decide to pick up this char later on in the games life...... Damn!!!!
I won't Tag Paulo just yet I can leave to one of you guys or see how this plays out first incase I overlooked something.
If mods feel this is more appropriate in the Ronin threads be my guest.
Edit: here's an upload from As a said above somebody really good as Cages perspective
Which is really weird and shows you how much range Ronin has B11 beats his reversal SK!!!!
That's an 11f normal beating a 10 frame reversal(reversals shave off a frame)
But atleast Cages floaty AF back jump can get get him a combo punish on a read which is still silly
But yep Jacqui has it the worst
NOTE: This is NOT Jaqcui specific!!!
I just showcased Jacqui as an extreme example. the point of this thread was share awareness and find other options which Panic mode found shotgun blast trades but basically leaves her in the same position
I'm not being arsehole so you shouldn't either, this part prob does not matter as its evidence on what I said I hoped not to happen in the OP happened in the posts.
I'm not saying Im right I'm opening a discussion not factual. That's why I did not tag Paulo just yet
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