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Nivek

Nivek

Athena guide me, the thunder God...
That's everything my honest opinion about Raiden changes (if they gonna happen any):

  • Give a reason to 3,4 string.. before maaany patches it was 0 on block and a true blocksting afterwards with f12.. now it's just a high,slow and minus on block string. And the overhead catches almost noone(maybe one in 30 games :p )
  • Fix down pokes.. and by fix i mean not so much punishable on block, not low profile-able(jesus!) and also NOT GRAB-ABLE(in MK in general). Why i should lose rock(block) and paper(low poke) guess by grab and only win with neutral??
  • D4 specific needs either to be faster or more plus.
  • JI1 needs more advantage on block because they can armor through the string that comes afterwards.also JI2 needs hitbox downwards Raiden's body(like Ermac's) because it's slow and weird.
  • NJP sometimes gets low profiled...maybe fix?
  • FASTER F2 BY 2 FRAMES OR MORE(and even better hitbox)
  • Superman (bf3) should be faster(14f -> 10f).. it is like a slide,but slower and not a low.Why so slow? Also it's gonna be a better wake up against some characters that low profile AND break Raiden's armor wake up. So we can play too :)
  • Quatro choice: either ex df2 a mid or safe , either ex db3 faster or less damage scaling
  • B1 not low profilable(or fix the low profilers, so the don't super abuse us)
  • db2 slightly faster
And more specific:
MASTER OF STORMS:
  • Less recovery on the orbs.
  • More combo consistency (f12b2 x3)
  • Ex Orb a hit of armor. And if there is already one in the screen and the ex orb is stuffed when he summoned only the first one, make the already existing one to not disappear.disappear only if the ex orb successfully summon both orbs out.
  • Maybe the orb connection become a mid?(not sure about that)
DISPLACER:
  • Combo consistency (f12b2 x3)
  • After b14 teleport in high juggles it should combo and not just be a true blockstring. Why he should waste a meter to do the TG combos? But it should connect only if the b14 hits high enough,otherwise it's gonna be minus or combo only with ex teleport.
  • Ex teleport hold should be only grab-able and not hittable(like ermac's)
  • B2 ex teleport should be 1-2 frames easier.
THUNDER GOD:
  • His electric extensions (f12b2,b32 ,1122 and b1122) should not have SO BIG damage scaling.
  • b2 fbrc f1 should be a thing. Maybe a hard 2-3 frame link and it is already -10(or more) on block.
  • B33 hit advantage need to be more plus so we can link at least f12 if it connects on hit.(again a hard link)
  • F12 shoukd be -1 or +0 on block for him like the other variations (it's still -3).Thanks @ganondeurf
  • Maybe faster fireball charge timings??
That's all folks ;)
Let's hope for a MKXL after EVO patch!!! Good luck guys at Evo and keep practicing :D

@PND_Ketchup
@PND_Mustard
@Lil Majin (good stuff at ceo t7 second place mate) ;)
@Digit
@Dizzy
@DDutchguy
@Raidenwins
@Barrogh
@tylerlansdown
And of course all Raiden lovers!
 
GAV

GAV

Resolution through knowledge and resolve.
Nivek said:
THUNDER GOD:
  • F12 shoukd be -1 or +0 on block for him like the other variations (it's still -3).Thanks @ganondeurf
Click to expand...
If they did nothing else, except this - Raiden would be viable enough to be seen again. He still wouldn't be what he was before, but this change is very fair and would help bring him back into the fray.
 
KHAOTIC_UNCLE-_-CREEPY

KHAOTIC_UNCLE-_-CREEPY

The CreepFather
Some suggestions I had not too long ago for Raiden.

Raiden- universal
D4 is now 9F start up down from 13F
F4 is now plus 8 on block with no push back up from plus 6
Slightly increase the horizontal hit box of F2
Remove push back from a blocked f12b2(-2) MOS and Displacer
Might of Mordulus(B33) string is now plus 8 on hit up from -1

Thunder God- Lightning string chip is now .40% doubled from .20%

Displacer- Teleporting in place no longer takes stamina
Input window for meter burning teleport on wake up is increased
Raiden is now invincible while holding the meter burn teleport(think Ermac's vanishing move in mos)
Meter burning superman on hit now allows Raiden to choose what direction he throws the opponent

Master or Storms- Orbs placed in air now do proximity damage while opponent is standing under them
A full orb trap now absorbs all projectiles
Raiden can now meter burn air orbs in any direction.

Make Raiden great again!
 
Darth-Nero

Darth-Nero

Come Thunder! Come Lightning!
Thanks for doing that Nevik, I really appreciate it.

It's painful to see that no one cares about Raiden enough in the community to make threads like these anymore, Everyone tournament player have moved on to another character except for Nevik.

I strongly agree with everything, specially the 3,4 string. I stopped using that because it's ridiculous for a high starter to be that slow.

Also am not gonna ask for b1 to be safe on block, just a little bit harder to punish like adding more push back stagger or something. I don't think Raiden should be more scared of attempting a 50/50 than the opponent getting hit by it.

As for Master of storms, No armor move should work or go through connected orbs. And am not talking about Oki am talking about connected orbs having the same properties as Sonya's grenades, His setup takes time and planning so he should be rewarded by guaranteed pressure at the very least.
 
DDutchguy

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
Response to Nivek:

UNIVERSAL

- Better 34 string: The string as-is is pretty much a gimmick so a buff would be in order, but by nature 34 is a bad string because standing 3 is a slow high with short range. If standing 3 does become faster, why not use standing 2 outside of maybe the corner?

- Pokes to be less punishable, not low profilable, not grabbable on block: D1 maybe becoming less minus on block would be nice, but besides that D1 and/or D3 don't need that much changing in my opinion.

- D4 faster or more + on hit: This buff wouldn't be half bad for Raiden, if we're talking a faster D4. His neutral would become much easier to manage.

- JI1 to have more advantage so you can't armor out + JI2 getting a better downwards hitbox: Feels a bit redundant to me because Raiden doesn't gain that much from jump-ins as it is. The armoring out thing on JI1 would be a good change however, seeing as he seems to be the only one to have this problem.

- NJP not getting low profiled: NJP gets low profiled?

- Faster F2 by 2 frames or more + better hitbox: This would give Raiden a mad good mid, which would be pretty hype. Think Lao's F2. Nice change, but I can live without it.

- BF3 from 14 frames to 10: Eh, I don't see the need for it really. Superman isn't really meant to be a great wakeup or to be a good reversal (Raiden has the normals to punish with so he doesn't need a fast reversal per se), it's meant to be Raiden's easy ticket into the corner. To me, faster startup is unnecessary because it would only help Raiden's reversal game substantially. It's also very different from slides by nature because slides can low profile projectiles, while the superman animation doesn't allow for it.

- EX-df2 from a high to a mid or for it to be safe + EX-db3 to be faster or to have less damage scaling: Nivek stop doing so much crack, you're not seriously considering giving Raiden a safe armored launcher. EX-df2 mid would be a very strong buff, because it gives Raiden very dangerous frame traps midscreen and makes it an even better wakeup than it already is. Raiden's wakeup game suffers from EX-df2 and EX-db2 being highs, but EX-db3 is a mid with a good horizontal hitbox on startup so it's not necessaey to make EX-df2 a mid for that reason. As for DB3, making the EX-version faster is a bit meh to me (it's fast enough to not get armor broken by regular strings), less damage scaling is far more attractive to me.

- B1 not low profilable: B1 should only be used at point blank if you ask me, where it will never get low profiled these days (judgong from my experience at least).

- DB2 slightly faster: Sure why not, I rarely use it anyway. A bit of a redundant buff, but the move looks cool.



MASTER OF STORMS

- Less recovery on orbs: Fully agree, orbs suck and should be easier to set up.

- F12B2 x3 BnB to be easier to perform: Agreed, it's unnecessarily hard to perform.

- EX orb to have armor + single orbs place with EX-orbs to not disappear when stuffed: Adding armor to EX-orbs sounds quite interesting and would make for a dangerous midscreen presence and a good wakeup. The second thing could become a problem if Raiden can get his orbs out before his armor gets broken, although it would have to start up darned fast to have that happen. What's the startup on EX-orbs?

- Orb trap to become a mid: At first I would say no because it being a high goves extra mind games, but those mind games are either quite risky or don't give enough payoff. Making traps hit mid would give Raiden powerful frame traps forcing respect out of the opponent.



DISPLACER

- F12B2 x3 BnB to be easier to perform: Agreed

- Hitting B14 mid combo on a high juggle to be able to combo further when you cancel it into teleport: I'm a bit unsure about thos. It's a buff for sure, but this could give Displacer a very high damage boost that he doesn't really need in my opinion. Most jotably though, it would make Thunder God relatively weaker when compared to Displacer, which I disagree with. Being able to cancel B14 is one of the main things that makes TG good and I'd hate to see this become redundant with this change.

- Held EX-teleport to not be a fraud, meaning you can't hit Raiden out of it: I 100% agree with this, being able to be hit out of held EX-teleport is very dumb.

- B2~EX-teleport to be easier to combo: Safe 50/50s boys. It's mad hard to do and I think that's for a good reason (safe 50/50s boys) so I'm not sure about this change.



THUNDER GOD

- Unique strings to have less damage scaling: Agreed, IF it means that the general TG BnBs give 3% more damage at best. Even with the damage scaling as it is, F12B2 and B32 are good strings and the damage you get is acceptable to me, especially with how ending in BF3 gives you an easy corner to work with.

- B2 LRC giving a combo: It will have to be reasonably unsafe on block unless we all want more safe 50/50s in our game, but if that's the case you might as well use the normal B2.

- B33 to be more plus on hit so you can combo it into F12B2 (hard link however): Sure why not, would give the string a purpose midscreen.

- F12 to not be -3 on block but 0 like the one in Displacer and MoS: Agreed, it's weird that this is the way it is.

- Decreasing the time before Raiden's Lightning Bolt becomes cancelable: Very dangerous change, because this could give TG A-list levels of cancels if done wrong. Disagree.
 
K

K-TOPGr

Noob
Nivek said:
That's everything my honest opinion about Raiden changes (if they gonna happen any):

  • Give a reason to 3,4 string.. before maaany patches it was 0 on block and a true blocksting afterwards with f12.. now it's just a high,slow and minus on block string. And the overhead catches almost noone(maybe one in 30 games :p )
  • Fix down pokes.. and by fix i mean not so much punishable on block, not low profile-able(jesus!) and also NOT GRAB-ABLE(in MK in general). Why i should lose rock(block) and paper(low poke) guess by grab and only win with neutral??
  • D4 specific needs either to be faster or more plus.
  • JI1 needs more advantage on block because they can armor through the string that comes afterwards.also JI2 needs hitbox downwards Raiden's body(like Ermac's) because it's slow and weird.
  • NJP sometimes gets low profiled...maybe fix?
  • FASTER F2 BY 2 FRAMES OR MORE(and even better hitbox)
  • Superman (bf3) should be faster(14f -> 10f).. it is like a slide,but slower and not a low.Why so slow? Also it's gonna be a better wake up against some characters that low profile AND break Raiden's armor wake up. So we can play too :)
  • Quatro choice: either ex df2 a mid or safe , either ex db3 faster or less damage scaling
  • B1 not low profilable(or fix the low profilers, so the don't super abuse us)
  • db2 slightly faster
And more specific:
MASTER OF STORMS:
  • Less recovery on the orbs.
  • More combo consistency (f12b2 x3)
  • Ex Orb a hit of armor. And if there is already one in the screen and the ex orb is stuffed when he summoned only the first one, make the already existing one to not disappear.disappear only if the ex orb successfully summon both orbs out.
  • Maybe the orb connection become a mid?(not sure about that)
DISPLACER:
  • Combo consistency (f12b2 x3)
  • After b14 teleport in high juggles it should combo and not just be a true blockstring. Why he should waste a meter to do the TG combos? But it should connect only if the b14 hits high enough,otherwise it's gonna be minus or combo only with ex teleport.
  • Ex teleport hold should be only grab-able and not hittable(like ermac's)
  • B2 ex teleport should be 1-2 frames easier.
THUNDER GOD:
  • His electric extensions (f12b2,b32 ,1122 and b1122) should not have SO BIG damage scaling.
  • b2 fbrc f1 should be a thing. Maybe a hard 2-3 frame link and it is already -10(or more) on block.
  • B33 hit advantage need to be more plus so we can link at least f12 if it connects on hit.(again a hard link)
  • F12 shoukd be -1 or +0 on block for him like the other variations (it's still -3).Thanks @ganondeurf
  • Maybe faster fireball charge timings??
That's all folks ;)
Let's hope for a MKXL after EVO patch!!! Good luck guys at Evo and keep practicing :D

@PND_Ketchup
@PND_Mustard
@Lil Majin (good stuff at ceo t7 second place mate) ;)
@Digit
@Dizzy
@DDutchguy
@Raidenwins
@Barrogh
@tylerlansdown
And of course all Raiden lovers!
Click to expand...
I TOTALLY AGREE!
 
Nivek

Nivek

Athena guide me, the thunder God...
DDutchguy said:
And here you thought I wasn't going to make an extremely long response post. You know me better than this Nivek.
Click to expand...
Hahahha ofc i know you ;)
Btw i agree to disagree with you haha..
The last one you mention , you misunderstand it.. i mean if you charge and release the fireball has 3 different states(like jacqui high tech) the level 2 charge and level 3 to be faster for some frames..
 
DDutchguy

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
Nivek said:
Hahahha ofc i know you ;)
Btw i agree to disagree with you haha..
The last one you mention , you misunderstand it.. i mean if you charge and release the fireball has 3 different states(like jacqui high tech) the level 2 charge and level 3 to be faster for some frames..
Click to expand...
Oh like that, I thought you were talking about faster fireball charge timings in the sense of canceling it and not needing as much time for the cancel to come out.
 
N00B

N00B

Noob
I agree, Raiden needs faster F2, D4 and EX DF2 being Mid, but other your buffs wish list are unnecessary imo.

There is my Buffs suggestions for Immortal Thunder God Raiden:

1) 10-11 fr F2 but -3 on block
2) 11 fr D4 but +10 on hit and -6 on block
With 10-11 fr F2 -3 on block and 11 fr D4 +10 on hit -6 on block, Raiden's neutral, footsies would be good in all variations. 10-11 frames startup for advancing not true mid and 11 frames startup for long range poke its fair and balanced.
3) DF2 shocker being Mid and - 5 or -6 on block - no one should punish this move, DF2 is not combostarter or launcher, this special move has long recovery, so DF2 -5 or -6 on block and hitting Mid would be fair and balanced, -5, -6 its not Raiden's turn anyway.
4) EX DF2 Mid - first of all this move looks like Mid, this special move is Full combo punishable and has a long recovery, so EX DF2 hitting Mid would be fair and balanced too.
5) 7-8 fr Vicinity Blast DB2 - This move would be more viable.
6) 7-8 fr EX Vicinity Burst Mid But -30 on block - Its would be a perfect change for improving Raiden's Deffense, especially for Thunder God variation. Fast unsafe armor launcher hitting Mid sounds fair and balanced. Buff and nerf in the same time.
7) Removing Gaps in two Thunder God variation strings: F12 B2 hold 2 *GAP* DF2 and 112 hold 2 *GAP* DF2 - well those strings starts from a highs tho.
8) 15 fr F2 2+4 in Thunder God - this string being faster would be nice.

NRS PLEASE!
 
Last edited:
IrishMantis

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
Just letting you all pokes are grabable it's a system thing it's not a Rauden specific

Correct me if I'm wrong but I assume it's due to the throws active frames beating the pokes active frames. So you could be seen the animation but the active frame had not connected.

Could be something else though but all pokes are grabable
 
DDutchguy

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
N00B said:
3) DF2 shocker being Mid and - 5 or -6 on block - no one should punish this move, DF2 is not combostarter or launcher, this special move has long recovery, so DF2 -5 or -6 on block and hitting Mid would be fair and balanced, -5, -6 its not Raiden's turn anyway.
Click to expand...
Wouldn't make much of a difference honestly. Shocker becoming fully safe is alright I suppose, but normal shocker hitting mid doesn't change much for Raiden. The only times you'd use shocker in the neutral is when you cancel into it on block. All strings into DF2 jail so it makes no difference whether it hits mid or not.

N00B said:
4) EX DF2 Mid - first of all this move looks like Mid, this special move is Full combo punishable and has a long recovery, so EX DF2 hitting Mid would be fair and balanced too.
Click to expand...
Mid EX-df2 would be nice, but it would make EX-db3 more pointless than it already is.

N00B said:
6) 7-8 fr EX Vicinity Burst Mid But -30 on block - Its would be a perfect change for improving Raiden's Deffense, especially for Thunder God variation. Fast unsafe armor launcher hitting Mid sounds fair and balanced. Buff and nerf in the same time.
Click to expand...
I disagree 100% with this. EX Vicinity Burst is Raiden's best wakeup because it's 0 on block and as such gives Raiden a way to wake up and not immediately be on the opponent's turn. Making it 7-8 frames is hardly a good tradeoff for the move suddenly becoming -30 on block.

N00B said:
7) Removing Gaps in two Thunder God variation strings: F12 B2 hold 2 *GAP* DF2 and 112 hold 2 *GAP* DF2 - well those strings starts from a highs tho.
Click to expand...
F12B2~DF2 has an inconsitent gap, it's really weird. I think it has to do with how close Raiden's body is to the opponent, which I think is determined by whether the leg that Raiden has in front is close to the opponent. Either way, no one is going to try and armor out of that.
 
thlityoursloat

thlityoursloat

kick kick
Yes, please.
Raiden got f u c k e d big time by NRS, they took away everything that made him good but hardly fixed any of his shortcomings.
 
DDutchguy

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
thlityoursloat said:
Yes, please.
Raiden got f u c k e d big time by NRS, they took away everything that made him good but hardly fixed any of his shortcomings.
Click to expand...
6-frame mid was dumb, 50% 1 bar combos in the corner and high 40% midscreen was dumb, huge chip off of lightning strings was dumb, B2 option select was dumb. Raiden deserved those nerfs.
 
DDutchguy

DDutchguy

Stand 4'ing airplanes out of the sky
thlityoursloat said:
I agree with most of what you said but high damage is not dumb, especially considering Raiden's neutral game as it is is pretty bad and now that he's significantly less safe.
Click to expand...
45 1 bar midscreen and 50 1 bar in the corner is overly high, even with Raiden's neutral being as it is. His damage as it is right now is still high while being a more reasonable amount.
 
Tweedy

Tweedy

Noob
High damage becomes hella dumb after characters get buffed lol. Look at Mileena or CT.

Not saying Raiden will get overbuffed, but this is a common theme on this game. His damage will be a problem if they make him top tier.
 
Nivek

Nivek

Athena guide me, the thunder God...
N00B said:
6) 7-8 fr EX Vicinity Burst Mid But -30 on block - Its would be a perfect change for improving Raiden's Deffense, especially for Thunder God variation. Fast unsafe armor launcher hitting Mid sounds fair and balanced. Buff and nerf in the same time.
Click to expand...
Sooooo... another hat character with spin hahaha...naaah that's too much.. we already have 6 frame punish.

IrishMantis said:
Just letting you all pokes are grabable it's a system thing it's not a Rauden specific

Correct me if I'm wrong but I assume it's due to the throws active frames beating the pokes active frames. So you could be seen the animation but the active frame had not connected.

Could be something else though but all pokes are grabable
Click to expand...
I know it's not specific.. and that's one of the things i like in MKX-L.. i know you will grab and i want to interrupt you, and i lose with a DOWN poke..pfff

TheRealOnlyGoonie said:
Leave F12B2 as is, so what if it requires some execution, dont want every joe shmoe picking up the character
Click to expand...
I'm ok with the execution part (even though online becomes 3 times harder). My problem is when you get the first 2 f12b2 and in the 3rd one the last hit of f12[B2]~bf3 whiffs, which is ALL THE DAMAGE.. i did 2 correct dashes to get all f12b2 juggled. Why i should do geometry(or just frame or correct stance starter position etc.) to get last last hit correctly. :/
 
TheRealOnlyGoonie

TheRealOnlyGoonie

Hey You Guys
Nivek said:
Sooooo... another hat character with spin hahaha...naaah that's too much.. we already have 6 frame punish.


I know it's not specific.. and that's one of the things i like in MKX-L.. i know you will grab and i want to interrupt you, and i lose with a DOWN poke..pfff


I'm ok with the execution part (even though online becomes 3 times harder). My problem is when you get the first 2 f12b2 and in the 3rd one the last hit of f12[B2]~bf3 whiffs, which is ALL THE DAMAGE.. i did 2 correct dashes to get all f12b2 juggled. Why i should do geometry(or just frame or correct stance starter position etc.) to get last last hit correctly. :/
Click to expand...
Maybe you just dont have the execution man, some people just aren't as gifted as others.
 
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