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How Mortal Kombat 11's Custom Variations Will Work In Competitive Play

Rozalin1780

Good? Bad? I'm the one with the fans
Because a broken system is time wasted at best and possibly more broken at worse.

So everyone uses misery blade, so all your future testing assumes they're using misery blade, but oh wait, turns out that one move that no one was using, so no one was testing it, totally breaks the matchup between scorp and DLC guy #4(thomas the tank engine)

You can't just leave shit in and assume it'll work out, so either you're testing it, or you're just willing to let the balance go to shit randomly.

Testing that many moves with so many possible combinations is way more work than testing 3 variations (which is way more work than testing just characters).

So why go through the hassle of testing all that shit, if it's going to be identical to having 3 variations, where everyone picks the misery blade variation?

Especially when that hassle is actual time and money spent, that could be spent on anything else (balance fixes, new dlc, whatever).

Time isn't free.



Have any of these people worked in a full on enterprise level environment where you don't just get to redesign objects/functions/interfaces/whatever however the they feel , because from what you're saying I doubt it?

"one more mode" in a online game will NEVER be a breeze
With that mentality — that effort is time and money wasted — why have custom variations at all when you could have “complete” characters that are easier to balance? Surely this issue had to have been brought up during the idea phase of development.

And why exactly would they have to “waste” time and money testing all of these things when they have a large player base to do it for them at which point they can put out a patch/hotfix in a matter of days — which is exactly what happened time and time again throughout the course of MKX’s lifespan?
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
This is definitely true.

NRS has conditioned us with their business model, basically. They promote the crap out of the game, injecting a lot of hype. They do an okay job of promoting events, they do a great job of promoting their own. They provide a lot of support for the game both casually and more importantly competitively. But it’s a double edged sword, unfortunately. Because once all that stops when they start focusing on promoting their next game, the players naturally start losing interest in the current game. Since it’s not being hyped up anymore by NRS, the flow of money either is much lower or stops completely, no more support via patches for the game, and the hype of the new game is all what contributes to the death of NRS games. The games aren’t built to last on their own, imo. If the game was phenomenal it would be able to stand the test of time AND it would be able to continue to thrive DESPITE all of those things I just mentioned. The problem is the game would have to be a next level masterpiece in order for it to survive all that encompasses the 2 year cycle.

And MK11 is the first NRS game I would say could even come close to breaking through that barrier. This is another reason I want the tournament rules to be solid before the tournament seasons starts. A bad start could be difficult to recover from for the longevity of the game. The problem is that no one knows what the perfect ruleset will be for MK11. We don’t know yet, NRS doesn’t know. Sure they have a better idea right now, but in a month or so, that is likely to no longer be the case!
I'm truly sorry but I can't take this anymore, because the stupid and ignorance coming in this thread, all of the other threads, and ESPECIALLY this comment, is beyond huge. I can't believe I actually have to right this.

What @CrimsonShadow said is not that the life cycle is the problem, THE REAL PROBLEM IS THAT THE COMMUNITY IS NOT BIG ENOUGH! And that means, that THE COMMUNITY NEEDS TO FIND A SOLUTION THEMSELVES TO THAT ISSUE, AS IT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH NRS OR WB, BUT THE COMMUNITY ALONE!

Yet you're still trying to spin this as if this is somehow still NRS' fault, coming with excuses like the "the games aren't build to last two years", "the players lose interest when the promotion and focus is on the newer game", "no more patches". Bluh bluh bluh bluh BLUH BLUH BLUH BLUH!

It's none of that, @CrimsonShadow have just said that in this post, and you completely ignore it.

And regarding the 2 year-cycle, this is something that is going on REGARDLESS OF THE QUALITY OF THE GAMES, NRS/WB release their games for the casuals first, and the casuals don't wanna way too long for new games. THE 2 YEAR CYCLE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS!

I mean, @Juggs, you actually did the unthinkable, you actually EXPOSED the whole problem of Test Your Might as a website in a single post. And it's that you, and no one who isn't a pro who actually work their assess off to get to tournies and win them or support the community any shape or form, and of course the people who actually who tear themselves to make the games that are so fantastic at NRS, all they want is just to get the glory at the expanse of other people's work, so they can all feel like they are a part of something without moving a god-damn finger. And then one someone put the truth right in their face, they come up with all of the excuses in the world, just like you did, if not straight-out insults like "stop kiss NRS' ass" or "you're just a sheep fanboy who doesn't know shit". And yes, people need to put criticism, but if they criticism comes from blown-out and urological reasons, and to a quantity that is just way too big, I'm sorry but this is no longer constructive criticism, it is a destructive one. And yes, criticisms that sounds like constructive CAN BE DESTRUCTIVE, and that's what and all of the complainers are doing. The quantity and core of this criticism are what makes your criticisms not legit. I'm sorry but that is the absolute truth. NRS know when to listen to the fans, and they give the proper communications better then any other company, and they have done above and beyond with their games. But when it's YOUR TURN TO MAKE IMPROVEMENTS, ALL YOU DO IS COMPLAIN WHEN YOU CAN.

Thank you very much @Juggs, you just buried THE WHOLE WEBSITE, if it wasn't buried already.
 
I really hope NRS will consider that their game as a whole could possibly just be more fun for everyone with your core mechanic enabled in all modes.
 

Afumba

Noob
Because a broken system is time wasted at best and possibly more broken at worse.

So everyone uses misery blade, so all your future testing assumes they're using misery blade, but oh wait, turns out that one move that no one was using, so no one was testing it, totally breaks the matchup between scorp and DLC guy #4(thomas the tank engine)

You can't just leave shit in and assume it'll work out, so either you're testing it, or you're just willing to let the balance go to shit randomly.

Testing that many moves with so many possible combinations is way more work than testing 3 variations (which is way more work than testing just characters).

So why go through the hassle of testing all that shit, if it's going to be identical to having 3 variations, where everyone picks the misery blade variation?

Especially when that hassle is actual time and money spent, that could be spent on anything else (balance fixes, new dlc, whatever).

Time isn't free.



Have any of these people worked in a full on enterprise level environment where you don't just get to redesign objects/functions/interfaces/whatever however the they feel , because from what you're saying I doubt it?

"one more mode" in a online game will NEVER be a breeze
First of all stop putting words in my mouth. I never said anyone can just go and change things as they please. When i say they could do it i mean that WB/NRS can decide to do it.

And yes some do. Two worked on an rts at a company which is easily comparable with WB/NRS. One works on an online multiplayer shooter. Sure, they cant say for sure what is and what isnt easy on a game they didnt work on but they can tell me their oppinion based on what is known.

And given that NRS hasnt made a decision until 3 weeks before release its logical to assume that its nothing that would take too long or take up too much resources. This is simply because if they would have gone the other way they would have had to create this stuff in that 3 weeks as there is no way that they would postpone the release. Like ever.

Besides given their state of mind they should have gone ahead and have implemened both options from the get go. I havent played Inj2 but i know that alot of people were mad/upset that the extra moves were only playable in casual. So its not that they didnt have feedback on hand.

Ofc its totally possible that they straight up lied about being indecisive to keep as much hype up as long as possible with casual, semi casuals and competitors alike. In this case my oppinion on things would be totally void as it is based on this aspect.

Also it is NOT a new game mode. Its basically just an extra options for an existing game mode. And if it is the word "easy" that bothers you... then let me rephrase... Its a doable thing in a months time.

But i am repeating myself so i am done here. To each his own.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
No, but i know people that have made games. And adding an already existing game mode with 1 different rule is not a big deal. I take the word of people i know way over yours.
Then why even ask?

And i stated above why i think the UI thing is not too big of a problem either. At best the deadline to create it was when they made the official decision. And given that they werent sure how they would decide i dont believe for a second that they designed the game in a way that they could not implement it in a shortish timeframe.
The decision was made before we even saw the game. Boon said no customs day 1 in competition. Day 1. So did Paolo. So did Hemmerick. So did Kirtzik. Even Bit said that's probably the way they're going. Those are facts. I don't have to dream them up based on something a friend of mine said.

But by all means, keep believing what you must.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
Alright well that mother fucker @Afumba got in my head, so I dug this up. This is a trailer for the fighter I made (and never finished) using 100% my own code, sprites we obviously stolen.


This was back in 2003, when Hyper Butoden was the closest thing we had to a real dragonball fighter.

The author of THIS video (and the games there-in) isn't me, but he was about the biggest fan my fighting game engine ever had. He made a ton of characters and games for it.

 

Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
People can hold their own tournaments or sides tournaments with custom variations and see how the game plays out. I don't see why people are going so crazy over this.

I can see it being very tough to balance yet people just disregard that point completely. The buff nerf threads are going to be hysterical.
 

NothingPersonal

Are you not entertained!?
Did any of NRS representatives respond on any social media to the fans reaction to their limiting custom variations?
 
With that mentality — that effort is time and money wasted — why have custom variations at all when you could have “complete” characters that are easier to balance? Surely this issue had to have been brought up during the idea phase of development.

And why exactly would they have to “waste” time and money testing all of these things when they have a large player base to do it for them at which point they can put out a patch/hotfix in a matter of days — which is exactly what happened time and time again throughout the course of MKX’s lifespan?
Its simple risk reward. Variations increase sales and are thus worth dev time for the difficulty they incur.

The argument that needs to be made is that custom movesets will increase sales MORE than variations enough to be worth the complexity.

It's pretty easy to say that's not the case, so they're left with "are we passionate enough about this system to want to do it anyways", and it's hard to do that when it's literally a major issue that will affect the balance of the game.
 

Phased

Noob
I really dont't understand all the complaints.

people are acting as though you wont be able to use custom moves.

all you have to do is turn off competitive mode and then you can. Judging by the amount of complaints, finding people to play shouldnt be an issue
 

trufenix

bye felicia
I really dont't understand all the complaints.

people are acting as though you wont be able to use custom moves.

all you have to do is turn off competitive mode and then you can. Judging by the amount of complaints, finding people to play shouldnt be an issue
You don't even have to turn it on, it's literally going to work just like the stress test / beta. People just want their cake and to eat it too.
 

DarksydeDash

With my best, I will defeat your best.
I really dont't understand all the complaints.

people are acting as though you wont be able to use custom moves.

all you have to do is turn off competitive mode and then you can. Judging by the amount of complaints, finding people to play shouldnt be an issue
The issue is for those who play the game competitively and watch competitively will be restricted from the feature in tournament.

After we all got play the game using custom variations via the beta, having an MKX variation system repeat was disappointing.

The big issue is balance but the flipped is that with the right combination of moves, any character could potential be viable but things such as matchup chart would be very difficult to create.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
Did any of NRS representatives respond on any social media to the fans reaction to their limiting custom variations?
They did months ago, based on the feedback we RESOUNDING gave them during the I2 years.

Game Informer: I’m a big fan of the custom variations in Mortal Kombat 11. My concern about it was that with Injustice 2's gear, it was very customizable, but the competitive crowd didn’t take to it.

Ed Boon: Yeah. And we knew that. From before we even announced it, we knew that the competitive guys? They want regulation. They want, "These are your tools to work with, and there’s no changing them." So we knew this was more of a feature that the mass market would certainly love. But the competitive guys, they want a regulation pool table, a regulation basketball court.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
They did months ago, based on the feedback we RESOUNDING gave them during the I2 years.
One of the most consistent complaints about Injustice 2 was the gear mode, don't act like everybody has the same opinions on anything. I didn't want gear abilities in ranked INJ2 because they weren't balanced, but that doesn't mean I think it was a good idea.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
One of the most consistent complaints about Injustice 2 was the gear mode dude don't act like everybody has the same opinions on anything
When the developers says "this is what we heard" it doesn't really matter what the people in the back said, just because everyone wants a change of venue now doesn't mean that literally 4 months ago people were still saying variations and customs were the devil.
 

Marinjuana

Up rock incoming, ETA 5 minutes
When the developers says "this is what we heard" it doesn't really matter what the people in the back said, just because everyone wants a change of venue now doesn't mean that literally 4 months ago people were still saying variations and customs were the devil.
Feedback was RESOUNDING
 

SeymorSlash216

Kahn Man
I'd be fine with them delaying the release of the game by a month or two (to work out anything unbalanced) if it means having custom variations in ranked and a UI for tourneys. Just seems really odd to have something with such potential be relegated to casual matches and offline ladders.
 

Xelz

Go over there!
Losing custom variations in ranked will have another unintended consequence: complete imbalance in unranked. If NRS allowed custom variations in ranked and tournaments, then they'd balance the game around customized load outs. And I for one have faith that NRS has the competence to do that. The custom variation system was surprisingly balanced for a beta, and sure, a few of custom moves needed tweaking, but so did some base character moves and combos. It all felt on par for a beta.

But by banning custom variations in ranked, NRS can let completely broken builds run wild in unranked since it won't impact tournament or ranked balance. So casuals who don't want to play ranked - or more dedicated players who want to play around with custom builds - are going to have a horrible experience in unranked. Thus ranked will be the only decent online option and no one will be able to have fun with custom variations outside of lobbies with friends.

And before someone jumps in and says NRS could just balance custom variations for unranked, then they may as well allow custom variations in ranked and tournaments if they're going to put in the effort to balance this for unranked. And if anyone says that this won't be an issue because custom variations will be balanced for unranked, then again, custom load outs may as well be allowed in ranked and tournaments.

Either:

a) Custom variations will be a broken mess in unranked and will drive away casuals, or
b) Custom variations will be balanced, and may as well be allowed in ranked and tournament

This comes with the caveat that NRS builds a UI to support customs for tournament play (a topic that's been discussed ad nauseam and I won't repeat it here).
 

pure.Wasted

'ello baby, did you miss me?
The decision was made before we even saw the game. Boon said no customs day 1 in competition. Day 1. So did Paolo. So did Hemmerick. So did Kirtzik. Even Bit said that's probably the way they're going. Those are facts. I don't have to dream them up based on something a friend of mine said.
Please stop spreading misinformation. This is what Ed Boon said "Day 1," and I'm quoting directly:

We’re kind of still thinking about whether we want to make those three fixed. We can let you copy and paste and then build from there, but I’m personally leaning towards having some base ones, certainly for competitive and tournaments.
January 17

So yeah, you are dreaming if you think what you said is facts.
 
Losing custom variations in ranked will have another unintended consequence: complete imbalance in unranked. If NRS allowed custom variations in ranked and tournaments, then they'd balance the game around customized load outs. And I for one have faith that NRS has the competence to do that. The custom variation system was surprisingly balanced for a beta, and sure, a few of custom moves needed tweaking, but so did some base character moves and combos. It all felt on par for a beta.

But by banning custom variations in ranked, NRS can let completely broken builds run wild in unranked since it won't impact tournament or ranked balance. So casuals who don't want to play ranked - or more dedicated players who want to play around with custom builds - are going to have a horrible experience in unranked. Thus ranked will be the only decent online option and no one will be able to have fun with custom variations outside of lobbies with friends.

And before someone jumps in and says NRS could just balance custom variations for unranked, then they may as well allow custom variations in ranked and tournaments if they're going to put in the effort to balance this for unranked. And if anyone says that this won't be an issue because custom variations will be balanced for unranked, then again, custom load outs may as well be allowed in ranked and tournaments.

Either:

a) Custom variations will be a broken mess in unranked and will drive away casuals, or
b) Custom variations will be balanced, and may as well be allowed in ranked and tournament

This comes with the caveat that NRS builds a UI to support customs for tournament play (a topic that's been discussed ad nauseam and I won't repeat it here).
People will just force competitive mode for casual matches like I did every time in Injustice.