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How do you feel about spamming in IGAU?

vegeta

vegeta

Saiyan Prince
I used to be narrow minded as a kid, also hating "spamming" but that's because I was naive. My views changed when I began to understand how things worked. So....

It doesn't exist to me
If it does "exist" its meaning to me when an opponent accuses me of it is "I'm hitting you with something you don't know how to block or get around so I'm not gonna stop using it (to my advantage) until you give me a reason to."
 
Tony at Home

Tony at Home

Master
DarksydeDash said:
No matter what every character it going to have "spam." Zod has trait, Supes has F23, Batgirl has her vortex, Martian has orbs, Shazam has teleport, etc. So with this said, "spamming" is not only projectiles, it's something a character has that makes them good. There is no such thing as "spam," that is literally nothing but a term scrubs make. It screams "Help! My opponent is using tools his character has that I don't know how to counter with my own so I must insult him by saying hes a bad player or create an excuse to cover up myself failing for adapting." The only exception to this rule are infinites but so far all of them are patched and will be hot fixed if more are found. So please, level up.
Click to expand...
There IS an argument to be made that although abusable moves and tactics will exist in every fighting game- their existence should not go completely unchecked because they're harmful to the players.


"If something takes X skill to execute, and has Y power, such that X= Y.."
"But something that has X + 2 skill to execute, should not have only Y + 2 power. It should have Y + 3 or more."

Deathstroke is an easy character to play at low level because his moves are seen as very "spammable". At low levels, you get alot of output for your input. But at high level, it becomes the reverse. It takes an increasingly large amount of effort and the returns they get for that effort is relatively small in comparison. It is a massive disincentive for the player to mvoe to the next level of play, when they are given a crutch at low level play, and their legs are subsequently broken at high level play BECAUSE of that crutch.

"If ability B is 10% stronger than ability A, but is 300% more difficult to use than ability A- people will just stick with ability A"
So you can probably guess what happened in this picture. This Deathstroke was using a tactic he or she had a tremendous amount of success with probably 90% of the time. Backed into a corner with a "get them away from me" interactible, and started firing guns. However, I know how to get around this strategy and destroyed them. But since they encounter players like me much less than they encounter players who are easy victim to that strategy, they refuse to take their loss as a lesson and learn from it- to graduate to the next level of play. They just get frustrated and ragequit.

Every game has this problem to an extent, but in Injustice my guess is it's worse than in most other fighting games.
 
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Magnum Magpie

Magnum Magpie

Apprentice
Lmao if death stroke were to be "played like this" heather realm wouldn't bother with normals at all! Yh you can zone when you're full screen but running away and doing it over and over again just increase salt levels. Lol
Spams a stupid word which doesn't make any God damn sense in my books, "stop spamming the same combos".... I'm just done, -__-, and when they complain cause you walk back and punish dash ins. It's called BLOCKING... Try it! ;)
Besides just because he is apparently a keep away character doesn't mean you have to be a follower and play him like that... There are plenty of amazing death strokes who can beat other players with little to no zoning so it's no excuse my friend. XD

Tbh I'm surprised not as many amazingly good zatannas are on ps4, because they would thrash you if you tried to played like that against them. Other characters who can beat your zoning would be everyone from; batgirl, zatanna and Grundy (w/armour), to maybe even raven, scorpion, Martian man hunter. You need to learn how to play everyone differently but in the right way that is.
 
Barrogh

Barrogh

Meta saltmine
Tony at Home said:
"If something takes X skill to execute, and has Y power, such that X= Y.."
"But something that has X + 2 skill to execute, should not have only Y + 2 power. It should have Y + 3 or more."
Click to expand...
That guy makes awesome vids, but tbh skill and effectiveness may be pretty hard to put into numbers. If you ask people to estimate skill required to pull off certain tactics on some abstract scale, you'll probably see that some people will give a lot of points for, say, execution (IAFB is hard, it better be effective; that up-close pressure is just mixing block strings with other options, easily done due to buffering), others will dismiss that and empathize decision making over it (IAFB is easy with right controller, but require no thought in many matchups because of safety; this up-close pressure requires reads and conditioning, it's not easy to open opponent up with it). That's just a plain example, but you see my point. Same goes about effectiveness as it involves such categories like "nice generic option, pretty reliable, you can't go wrong with it in spacing game" and "very situational, but amazing, be ready to use and it will condition opponent not to do X". Hard to say what's better because overcoming matchup will probably require both anyways.

It's even harder when you try to estimate what exactly is "skill requirement +X" and "effectiveness +Y". It's hard to tell what's greater - X or Y - as hard, in fact, as trying to figure out what's bigger, kilogram or kilometre (there are some ideas about it, but ofc they only work within very specific problems - just like example in question, really).

So in the end, I decided to just go with regular contextual estimation - what tool fills what role and what is risk/reward in using it against another opponent's tool. As for skill requirements - there always will be one, but it will come natural, just make sure player don't need to struggle with artificial difficulty there (i.e. design inputs so that the game won't read input A for input B because you didn't take into consideration that crouching A is basically B and player will want to use A right after quick crouching).

So my take is to balance from "purely beyond 4th wall" perspective, as in - balance tools, because even if it takes unhuman to use your sickeningly powerful tool and it won't happen much in practice, what are really upsides of having something that could potentially make some MU degenerative providing someone manages it? Hype? It won't last long. To put it into allegory, complex chemical dynamics are more fun than some alchemy with philosopher's stone that does everything but is scarce, when answer to so many things is still probably "try to get it and it will do it for you".
 
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