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How are the villains "weak"?

BumbleBee

Power of Toasty
Yeah I don’t mean it as an insult, I’m having fun with the absurdity of presumably a bunch of grown adults with full time jobs and full lives, spending their time arguing over MK lore. It’s awesome, and I’m glad that despite having to take on more responsibilities that I still have time to be a dork. I was 15 when I first started playing MK and I’m still a young guy, but I’m far busier than when I was a kid - building a career, working towards a Master’s degree, enjoying married life, and occasionally competing in powerlifting. I’m sure a lot of you guys are in the same boat or experienced something similar when you were my age. Not to be over dramatic, but I feel blessed to still be able to be a dork since a lot of guys get forced out of the hobbies they enjoy as life happens. I think this is an undeniably dorky conversation to have but I enjoy it, you don’t have to “identify” as a dork, but I am what I am, and I’m a fuckin dork. I love MK lore even if I am here more for strategy, tech, and meeting people to play with etc, I enjoy these topics.
That is absolutely fair, enjoy your accomplishments you worked so hard for, it's just that forums are a perfect environment for something like this, so, it's a bit strange, that some people find it... er, strange. I can talk both story and gameplay, i assure you.
 
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Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
That is absolutely fair, enjoy your accomplishments you worked so hard for, it's that forums are a perfect environment for something like this, so, it's a bit strange, that some people find it... er, strange. I can talk both story and gameplay, i assure you.
I don’t find it strange, just dorky in a good way, as in we are all lucky enough to still play and talk about video games
 

Rodney Quillz

Kombatant
Haha, yeah.




Did they fight him together? I thought Lao had already "died" when Liu Kang fought Shao Khan.



Yeah, that was one of the reasons I liked him. But since MK9 he is not even a shadow of his former self.



The problem are the friends we made along the way.
Yes they did, Lao used his injuries as an opportunity to fake his own death, Kahn whooped his ass so bad to the point that he retired, the man benched himself after that ass whooping.

Meanwhile in the NRS era he kills Lao from behind to avoid the 1v1.
 

Juxtapose

Master
"They had an off day" is weak writing when you've spent forever establishing them as ass kicking machines.
Nah, it's actually happened. Characters are caught off balance and such, which would affect things. Whether you like that or not is up to personal preference.

And i would be 100% fine with all of this if it was actually in the story and not just head canon.
It's not though, stuff like this does happen and Kitana is an example.


I also find it funny how everyone's focusing on Kitana, yet no one seems to have an issue with Kotal beating Shao.

Yeah I don’t mean it as an insult, I’m having fun with the absurdity of presumably a bunch of grown adults with full time jobs and full lives, spending their time arguing over MK lore. It’s awesome, and I’m glad that despite having to take on more responsibilities that I still have time to be a dork. I was 15 when I first started playing MK and I’m still a young guy, but I’m far busier than when I was a kid - building a career, working towards a Master’s degree, enjoying married life, and occasionally competing in powerlifting. I’m sure a lot of you guys are in the same boat or experienced something similar when you were my age. Not to be over dramatic, but I feel blessed to still be able to be a dork since a lot of guys get forced out of the hobbies they enjoy as life happens. I think this is an undeniably dorky conversation to have but I enjoy it, you don’t have to “identify” as a dork, but I am what I am, and I’m a fuckin dork. I love MK lore even if I am here more for strategy, tech, and meeting people to play with etc, I enjoy these topics.
Absoltuely. Dude, just beacuse you're an adult with responsibilities doesn't mean you have to give up your hobbies. Like I've mentioned, I'm middle aged and still loving gaming. My fiancee enjoys games too, and MK, and fully supports the hobby. My father's a senior and rocking Halo and Skyrim (and soon _Gears of War). Enjoy and do what you like, so long as you're not neglecting real responsibilities.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
I also find it funny how everyone's focusing on Kitana, yet no one seems to have an issue with Kotal beating Shao.
That was probably even worse. Kotal sucks. The difference is people don't go on defending it like "but Kotal is an ancient warrior class dude capable of beating the whole roster at any given time". Almost everyone agrees Kotal beating Shao Khan is utterly absurd so there's nothing to debate, and in the rematch Shao Khan gave him the Bane treatment, and in the rubber match he literally decapitated him. So there isn't much to argue there. Everyone knows it was dumb and NRS rectified it in true MK fashion. Pretty much like everyone agrees Stryker beating Ermac/Mileena/Kintaro 3x in a row is absurdly absurd by uber absurd standards. Not much to debate there either. Etc.

Unlike with Kitana some of those same people be like "but you don't like Kitana winning because you hate women" lol it's hard to argue against that.
 

LiuKangmain

Mortal
That was probably even worse. Kotal sucks. The difference is people don't go on defending it like "but Kotal is an ancient warrior class dude capable of beating the whole roster at any given time". Almost everyone agrees Kotal beating Shao Khan is utterly absurd so there's nothing to debate, and in the rematch Shao Khan gave him the Bane treatment, and in the rubber match he literally decapitated him. So there isn't much to argue there. Everyone knows it was dumb and NRS rectified it in true MK fashion. Pretty much like everyone agrees Stryker beating Ermac/Mileena/Kintaro 3x in a row is absurdly absurd by uber absurd standards. Not much to debate there either. Etc.

Unlike with Kitana some of those same people be like "but you don't like Kitana winning because you hate women" lol it's hard to argue against that.
Man don't even get me started on that shit. At least Shao Kahn destroyed his ass twice during story mode.
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
That was probably even worse. Kotal sucks. The difference is people don't go on defending it like "but Kotal is an ancient warrior class dude capable of beating the whole roster at any given time". Almost everyone agrees Kotal beating Shao Khan is utterly absurd so there's nothing to debate, and in the rematch Shao Khan gave him the Bane treatment, and in the rubber match he literally decapitated him. So there isn't much to argue there. Everyone knows it was dumb and NRS rectified it in true MK fashion. Pretty much like everyone agrees Stryker beating Ermac/Mileena/Kintaro 3x in a row is absurdly absurd by uber absurd standards. Not much to debate there either. Etc.

Unlike with Kitana some of those same people be like "but you don't like Kitana winning because you hate women" lol it's hard to argue against that.
Stryker being able to land a blow on Mileena is so far from the truth it's like the flat earth of NRS.
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
That was probably even worse. Kotal sucks. The difference is people don't go on defending it like "but Kotal is an ancient warrior class dude capable of beating the whole roster at any given time". Almost everyone agrees Kotal beating Shao Khan is utterly absurd so there's nothing to debate, and in the rematch Shao Khan gave him the Bane treatment, and in the rubber match he literally decapitated him. So there isn't much to argue there. Everyone knows it was dumb and NRS rectified it in true MK fashion. Pretty much like everyone agrees Stryker beating Ermac/Mileena/Kintaro 3x in a row is absurdly absurd by uber absurd standards. Not much to debate there either. Etc.

Unlike with Kitana some of those same people be like "but you don't like Kitana winning because you hate women" lol it's hard to argue against that.
Kotal Kahn looked so bad ass when they were first dropping MKX trailers. Man. What happened?
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
You heard it here, folks: Earthrealms chosen defenders cannot defend Earthrealm.

Honestly, this is just Outworld propaganda at this point.
Clearly Raiden was high when he chose a powerless cop to defend Earthrealm. :laughing:

OUTWORLD!OUTWORLD!OUTWORLD!
 

Juxtapose

Master
Almost everyone agrees Kotal beating Shao Khan is utterly absurd so there's nothing to debate...
Well, here's a point to consider: In Chapter 2 Shao did beat and was going to smash Kotal, but then Liu and Raiden stepped in and fought Shao. Kotal and Shao were split after that for a bit.

By the time they clash again, Shao would not be in top form, so Kotal coming out on top while Shao is unbalanced isn't a stretch.

Kotal Kahn looked so bad ass when they were first dropping MKX trailers. Man. What happened?
He is, but remember the character himself is centered around being very flawed and very "human." I think Kotal is one of the best new characters because of these flaws.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Kotal Kahn looked so bad ass when they were first dropping MKX trailers. Man. What happened?
Even early in the story it had everyone like "oh wow this game is gonna be that dude". Even his voice acoti was GOAT. Then by the time you're playing it you're like "wait what is happening", and by MK11 you're like "wow this guy is trash" LOL. I still think he's a good concept and great design, by he definitely needs a story buff if he arrives at some point for MK12.
 

Eji1700

Kombatant
Nah, it's actually happened. Characters are caught off balance and such, which would affect things. Whether you like that or not is up to personal preference.



It's not though, stuff like this does happen and Kitana is an example.


I also find it funny how everyone's focusing on Kitana, yet no one seems to have an issue with Kotal beating Shao.
I'm not about to replay/rewatch MK11 story right now, but to be very clear here, where in the scene does it say that's why kitana beat him? Because to my memory(and i could be wrong), you're just assuming it was "bad day". And that's fine, but it sure as hell would've been a lot better to actually, you know, build it up in any way, shape, or form, and pay it off as if they had.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Even early in the story it had everyone like "oh wow this game is gonna be that dude". Even his voice acoti was GOAT. Then by the time you're playing it you're like "wait what is happening", and by MK11 you're like "wow this guy is trash" LOL. I still think he's a good concept and great design, by he definitely needs a story buff if he arrives at some point for MK12.
Agreed. Kotal losing to Kung Jin doesn’t bother me terribly because Jin is related to Lao, and every Shaolin is a badass. On paper, Jin should be the best new gen fighter imo. Then he gets frozen by Sub-Zero and can’t break out of the ice ball in a later cutscene. I’m a huge Sub fan but he really just essentially one hit the emperor of outworld, and the Lin Kuei chased off his army if I remember right, pathetic lol. He needed SOME real Ws, Tanya and Kollector ain’t gonna cut it.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Stryker being able to land a blow on Mileena is so far from the truth it's like the flat earth of NRS.
Kintaro burned Kabal almost to death in an instant and Stryker was like, "I'll take it from here". Stryker is actually so OP that NRS couldn't risk bringing him back and having him derail the stories.

I do wonder why they don't adjust the "chapter episode" structure for the story canon though. I think that's how we end up either arguing the lore or loop in stuff like GOAT Stryker.

For example say there's a chapter for Liu Kang. You get 5 fights, but the 4 fights are against fake/generic characters or multiple goon characters, and then the 5th fight is against a real character like Noob Saibot. Then you go to the next character.

Feel like it would help the storytelling be easier and not have some characters get super jobbed out like Sheeva/Baraka MK9 or undead heroes always losing etc.
 

LiuKangmain

Mortal
You think Stryker beating Mileena is weird? He beats Kintaro for fuck's sake. Dude has a mission in the tower to beat 3 Shao Kahns back to back lol
 
At that point in the story, Johnny Cage was just a regular guy. The whole green energy as a plot point(not as a game mechanic, mind you), didn't become a thing until MKX. And by then be was going toe to toe with Scorpion and shit. These things have never been consistent.
Mk 9 explained Johnny's power then mkx happened. Turns out his ending was true. Especially if you look and see that Johnny's ancestors worked for/ with raiden in some capacity. It made hella sense to me as to why Raiden would even bother with him. I loveed Johnny's character arc and all. It was good. He's not regular by any means of the imagination. I do think they failed that momentum in mk11 when he didn't have an outburst of energy when they had the chance to show it off in younger johnny.