What's new

Highborn Kitana is ridiculous

KHTC Jink

Don’t even
Highborne was also made more fair with the buffer change. She already had to hold fast mids but now she has to be concerned about stance cancels too.

Everything that is blocked means the opponent has a much larger window to push buttons regardless of the frames being plus or minus.

I will say that her zoning remains as strong as ever, especially since we can now delay the amp of fan toss while still frame trapping with sai toss.

Also, if you're going to throw a projectile from more than mid screen, then of course she's going to teleport, scorpion can do the same thing. Theres plenty of ways to zone her out but you can just be predictable with projectiles.
And also what do you mean by fast mids? I was playing a Highborne as Cassie literally right after I made this post and my f4 wasn’t the end all be all. I still had to make the read on when she was going to end it and if I was wrong I would get poked.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I’m curious to hear your guys’ thoughts, because I’ve been using this variation for the past week, and I’ve fought many that do. And the general game plan consensus among Kitana players that play Highborn is: String into db2, poke or block poke, string into db2.
Let me know your thoughts.
Most Kitana players have been saying that Highborn is a very strong variation. Hell, Khaotic and I said so even before some the universal buffs. However, to suggest that the character is playing a different game than the other characters is inaccurate in my opinion. Admittedly, she has a myriad of strengths, but she also has conspicuous weaknesses such as slow mid attacks in comparison to the rest of the cast. I would also argue that she requires more skill than people believe as you want to extend the block advantage on razors as much as possible, which is not easy to accomplish consistently, and play a fundamentally sound zoning and anti-zoning game with fans, sais, and dive kicks.
 

KHTC Jink

Don’t even
Most Kitana players have been saying that Highborn is a very strong variation. Hell, Khaotic and I said so even before some the universal buffs. However, to suggest that the character is playing a different game than the other characters is inaccurate in my opinion. Admittedly, she has a myriad of strengths, but she also has conspicuous weaknesses such as slow mid attacks in comparison to the rest of the cast. I would also argue that she requires more skill than people believe as you want to extend the block advantage on razors as much as possible, which is not easy to accomplish consistently, and play a fundamentally sound zoning and anti-zoning game with fans, sais, and dive kicks.
I agree with everything your saying. My main point in saying that variation plays the game differently than others is based mostly on the random frame advantage guessing game. And yes, getting the +1 on block will never be consistent, but that’s not really the point. The fact that it CAN be +1 or -5 is the unnerving part. Not to mention the third fan that can still hit you. She does have slow mids, yes. But this variation isn’t playing neutral all that often, and it’s not difficult for her to get her turn back.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
And also what do you mean by fast mids? I was playing a Highborne as Cassie literally right after I made this post and my f4 wasn’t the end all be all. I still had to make the read on when she was going to end it and if I was wrong I would get poked.
9-11 frame mids are considered the fastest in the game. If you block them standing, you can back dash the third fan and her poke and start your offense. Characters with fast backlashes like sub, johnny or Cetrion can actually punish her for it.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
I don’t think anyone is up playing anything. Variable frame data is the problem and her game plan is unnatural and unfit for what this game was trying to achieve. That’s the only point that was made when this post was born. I literally said that in the beginning of the post.
If you were able to read that this was test your might and not Twitter, you would’ve been able to read that too.
I'm more so pointing out your lack of knowledge of the whiners on twitter compared to the upplayers here, and trust me, there are a lot on both ends.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
I agree with everything your saying. My main point in saying that variation plays the game differently than others is based mostly on the random frame advantage guessing game. And yes, getting the +1 on block will never be consistent, but that’s not really the point. The fact that it CAN be +1 or -5 is the unnerving part. Not to mention the third fan that can still hit you. She does have slow mids, yes. But this variation isn’t playing neutral all that often, and it’s not difficult for her to get her turn back.
I agree about the "random" frame data on the razors, but this point is not necessarily related to the neutral game. I would argue she plays an effective neutral game because of fans, aerial fans, b+2, d+4, jumping kick, etc. which is no different from other characters who control space very well (i.e., Cetrion, Geras, Johnny Cage, and Liu Kang).
 

John_NX

Your circumstances are dire!
Also, let's not forget that you can full combo punish Kitana if you know she's gonna cancel a string into Sai stance cancel by using your fastest punisher. People who do this will make the kitana player afraid to cancel.
 

DragonofDadashov24

Let’s see whose fire burns hotter
Played against one God Kitana in KL she lost to my Cage 2:0. You can literally punish everything she does, her fans are easy to avoid, teleport is b2 punishable, sai is very slow to hit you so you can shadow kick her ass
 

DragonofDadashov24

Let’s see whose fire burns hotter
Also, let's not forget that you can full combo punish Kitana if you know she's gonna cancel a string into Sai stance cancel by using your fastest punisher. People who do this will make the kitana player afraid to cancel.
I literally learned about the cancel yesterday, she caught me off guard with it but nothing too serious
 

KHTC Jink

Don’t even
Also, let's not forget that you can full combo punish Kitana if you know she's gonna cancel a string into Sai stance cancel by using your fastest punisher. People who do this will make the kitana player afraid to cancel.
Yeah but a lot of good Highborne players seldom cancel. It’s not an integral part of her pressure.
 

KHTC Jink

Don’t even
I agree about the "random" frame data on the razors, but this point is not necessarily related to the neutral game. I would argue she plays an effective neutral game because of fans, aerial fans, b+2, d+4, jumping kick, etc. which is no different from other characters who control space very well (i.e., Cetrion, Geras, Johnny Cage, and Liu Kang).
Yeah, the special doesn’t have much to do with the neutral in and of itself, but once she is in. Resetting to neutral is a rare occurrence. You’re going to have to deal with the weird pressure from fan spin and it will be a guessing game to get her off of you. Which is typical as far as pressure characters go, like Liu or Jacqui, but this type of pressure is just mindless “string into special, guess when I’m going to stop hope I get the right frames” the variations game plan just feels off. And the reason it feels that way, is because, well, it is off. The random frames really should be fixed.
 

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
How is anyone going to flawless block after. It's variable for both people, pretty sure her u2 also gets low profiled by like everything.

Also I actually knew you meant kitana, though I could have worded it better
Even if the block advantage varies between 5 frames flawless blocks are pretty generous and have zero risk on reversal as long as you don‘t block too late because you can os u2. Worst case Kitana‘s just blocking the poke and it‘s her turn again anyway.
 

Slymind

Noob
Edenian razors should be reworked, half blood stance should've been the main move of this variation.

It's not even about nerfs, i just think the gameplan of this particular variation is extremely lame, Fanfare and Fearless are way cooler to see.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Fanfare and Fearless are way cooler to see.
"Cool" is subjective. Besides, you never see them in tournaments because they are weak variations. Semiij did try Fanfare at Final Kombat but could barely win a round. I doubt the most recent buffs will make much of a difference. The razors and half blood stance and its moves complement how Kitana wants to play in almost every match. As Kitana players, we ought to appreciate the fact that we have a top tier variation in Highborn instead of complaining about nuances.
 

DragonofDadashov24

Let’s see whose fire burns hotter
Fuck Highborn. It can become new Upgraded and be top 1 by far, I'm not touching it.
YEAH! We’re playing for fun, not for playing top tier bullshit. I play Leroy in Tekken though and I decided to main him the moment he was announced, that didn’t go well. Hope Fahkumram is more balanced, but that’s another subject
 

BlissfulMedusa

Modern Woefare
I find it’s more concerning about whether or not she’s going to cancel into razors in the first place. Unless she’s absolutely frame perfect (which is hard offline, let alone on) I can generally disrespect her.
Played against one God Kitana in KL she lost to my Cage 2:0. You can literally punish everything she does, her fans are easy to avoid, teleport is b2 punishable, sai is very slow to hit you so you can shadow kick her ass

From what I’ve seen... this. Disrespect is the name of the game. The best thing she has is her zoning game (which is incredibly annoying to deal with). Most likely the reason no one is picking her in a tournament setting.
 
I just don’t like how highborn can frame trap her projectiles, teleport, and also pressure you to death in one variation. Didn’t we decide to split up these different playstyles into alternate variations? Feels like highborn controls every inch of the screen in a game where characters shouldn’t.
 

Demon_0

Shao Kahn is back!
This character is upright retarded and takes no skill in this variation. Her Edenian dogshit move makes her braindead. Hope to see it nerfed in the upcoming patch.