What's new

Highborn Kitana is ridiculous

KHTC Jink

Don’t even
Phew, so let me start out by saying I’m not up-playing Kitana, I know you Kitana players are very defensive of her placement on the tier list, and by no means am I saying she’s busted or anything. But my lord, that variation is one of the few that go against the typical ‘meta’ of the game.
That variation does not play neutral...like at all. Now you may be wondering, “well of course she does, it’s Kitana, her whole game plan revolves around zoning, outspacing with her good buttons etc” and I’d be inclined to agree with you if we’re talking about any other variation of hers.
Okay, so Highborn gets access to a stance, in this stance she gets a teleport, the stab, and the air sai that tracks. She also gets (this is where it gets ridiculous) a safe 15 damage special that she can hold or stop at any time. ON BLOCK this special does 52 damage. So every jump in you have to hold around 78 damage, depending on the string. Pretty strong, yeah but how does she just completely avoid playing neutral?
This variation (once she gets in, which isn’t difficult because of her Mileena teleport)
Does one thing. Strings in db2 ending it at different times to steal a turn back or just blocking the opponents poke and going back into it. Let’s talk about it from the opponents perspective. So let’s say you’re trying to zone a little bit, but you have to be cautious of the stance. So she works her way in and jumps in, you were waiting but too bad, you can’t anti-air Kitanas early jump 2. Now you’re already in guess mode, is she going to stagger back 2? Throw? Or just do the whole string into db2. Let’s say she does the last option. She only holds it for 2 fans (meaning you block 2 of the 3 fans that spin) you were expecting that and you poke, but guess what? Too bad because actually, the move was taken from mk9! And in transferring over to this game it got what’s called random frame advantage. If you do her back 2 string into the in-place fan spin it can be -5, 0, +1, -4. It can also randomly go all the way to minus 8 and 6 as well, but this is all assuming you don’t let the THIRD fan go.
What I’m getting at, is this variations entire game plan is to do any string into that special and chip away at your health. The entire game. Not one other character plays like this. There’s no neutral being played, no back and forth of pokes or footsies, just guessing when she decides to end the special. It feels super unnatural to play against and it goes against what this game is supposed to be centered around.
Now I’m not going to just complain and not offer what I think should be done. I think that they should make the move have consistent frames, no matter how much you hold it or not. I think if you block one fan and they stop it should be the normal -5, same goes if you block the second or the third. And truth be told, I think the idea of being able to hold or cancel it at any point is weird. Imagine if chop chop could be stopped on a dime and was safe or even sometimes plus?
I’m curious to hear your guys’ thoughts, because I’ve been using this variation for the past week, and I’ve fought many that do. And the general game plan consensus among Kitana players that play Highborn is: String into db2, poke or block poke, string into db2.
Let me know your thoughts
 

KHTC Jink

Don’t even
I have genuinely never had a problem with this variation and do not understand how people do? I generally have 0 problem getting out of her pressure just by reacting and d1ing. Am I the only one that feels this way or have I just not played a good Highborn?
Well it depends, because if they just block your poke you’re back into it. I’ve played a few good Highborn players and it’s never that simple.
 

KHTC Jink

Don’t even
Pokes into razors is not a thing at all. If you’re not blowing that up then that’s a you problem, not Highborn.
I tested it against a few characters, and some cannot do anything about a well spaced down 4 into razors. D3 doesn’t have enough block stun, so you can’t with that, but you can with down 4.
 
I know what you mean. Highborne feels very weird to play against, I gotta guess when it’s actually my turn or not lol. And you lose like half life in the process from the chip, which wouldn’t be so bad if the move was consist so you can form some counter play but alas since it’s random variables of being plus or minius it’s a crapshoot lol
 

Arqwart

Fatal Blowing at the Speed of Liiiiight
Seems like she can just always yoink her turn right back by just d3ing and low-profiling whatever button you pressed.

Also, the "??? on block" aspect of razors is maddening.
If only one Razor hits you on block, Kitana is 100% full combo punishable at -14 to -17. If two razors hit you on block, it's anywhere from +1 to -4 depending on the Kitana's timing. With her lack of a fast mid or poke, this means she still is guaranteed to lose her turn even if she gets it to +1. The issue is the threat of a flawless block reversal U2 if you do decide to poke her immediately.

With the new patch's reversal frame buffer increase, Razors looping should be notably less of a threat.
 

Wigy

There it is...
If only one Razor hits you on block, Kitana is 100% full combo punishable at -14 to -17. If two razors hit you on block, it's anywhere from +1 to -4 depending on the Kitana's timing. With her lack of a fast mid or poke, this means she still is guaranteed to lose her turn even if she gets it to +1. The issue is the threat of a flawless block reversal U2 if you do decide to poke her immediately.
How you guna time your flawless block if she's variably plus. That seems like some next level Jedi shit.
 

Arqwart

Fatal Blowing at the Speed of Liiiiight
How you guna time your flawless block if she's variably plus. That seems like some next level Jedi shit.
No no, not YOUR flawless block as the defender. HER flawless block afterwards. Like I said, a fast poke (D1s and some faster D3s) are always guaranteed to beat her out after Razors. Her pokes are too slow to even win with the +1 scenario. The real threat is not whether she gets her turn again because she definitely does not, but instead if she knows she can blow up your reversal with her own fb U2.
 
I have genuinely never had a problem with this variation and do not understand how people do? I generally have 0 problem getting out of her pressure just by reacting and d1ing. Am I the only one that feels this way or have I just not played a good Highborn?
Lets not be so brash, a lot of the cast cant counter her d1....has range and pushback. What are the frames on block? I actually never had a problem with Highborn either but I played last night and to my surprise I did die by chip the whole match she never actual opened me up.
 
Last edited:

Wigy

There it is...
No no, not YOUR flawless block as the defender. HER flawless block afterwards. Like I said, a fast poke (D1s and some faster D3s) are always guaranteed to beat her out after Razors. Her pokes are too slow to even win with the +1 scenario. The real threat is not whether she gets her turn again because she definitely does not, but instead if she knows she can blow up your reversal with her own fb U2.
How is anyone going to flawless block after. It's variable for both people, pretty sure her u2 also gets low profiled by like everything.

Also I actually knew you meant kitana, though I could have worded it better
 

Zer0_h0ur

XBL tag: South of Zero
@Wigy is right, variable frame data is a bad mechanic

That being said, as a Highborn dabbler, I've played people that are free to it and people that are damn good at reacting and poking their turn back regardless of how I vary razors.
 
Close range d4 razor is countered by interrupting it
Far range d4 razor is counter by just walk back, it'll whiff. If you play characters like Dvorah having long range normals without hurtbox, you can punish whiffed razor easily.
But yea, I hate variable frame data. I am a Kitana player and I hate the razor so much
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
Close range d4 razor is countered by interrupting it
Far range d4 razor is counter by just walk back, it'll whiff. If you play characters like Dvorah having long range normals without hurtbox, you can punish whiffed razor easily.
But yea, I hate variable frame data. I am a Kitana player and I hate the razor so much
None of us even like the variation period lol. It’s basic and boring, something kitana isn’t.

it’s definitely a good variation, no one is denying that. It’s just such a drag to use
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Hey, this is tym not Twitter. This Kitana community has been up playing highborne for months. Problem is most competitors dont care when Jacqui, Johnny, and Cetrion exist.
 

DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
Highborne was also made more fair with the buffer change. She already had to hold fast mids but now she has to be concerned about stance cancels too.

Everything that is blocked means the opponent has a much larger window to push buttons regardless of the frames being plus or minus.

I will say that her zoning remains as strong as ever, especially since we can now delay the amp of fan toss while still frame trapping with sai toss.

Also, if you're going to throw a projectile from more than mid screen, then of course she's going to teleport, scorpion can do the same thing. Theres plenty of ways to zone her out but you can just be predictable with projectiles.
 

KHTC Jink

Don’t even
If only one Razor hits you on block, Kitana is 100% full combo punishable at -14 to -17. If two razors hit you on block, it's anywhere from +1 to -4 depending on the Kitana's timing. With her lack of a fast mid or poke, this means she still is guaranteed to lose her turn even if she gets it to +1. The issue is the threat of a flawless block reversal U2 if you do decide to poke her immediately.

With the new patch's reversal frame buffer increase, Razors looping should be notably less of a threat.
It’s never full combo punishable, you can’t react to her only doing one fan on block and then trying to get a POSSIBLE 16 frame punish in, it doesn’t work like that. And she is not guaranteed to lose her turn. It doesn’t work like that, the frames are just part of the guessing game, you have to guess how many fans you have to block THEN you can get into frame data. Which is still, random.
 

KHTC Jink

Don’t even
Hey, this is tym not Twitter. This Kitana community has been up playing highborne for months. Problem is most competitors dont care when Jacqui, Johnny, and Cetrion exist.
I don’t think anyone is up playing anything. Variable frame data is the problem and her game plan is unnatural and unfit for what this game was trying to achieve. That’s the only point that was made when this post was born. I literally said that in the beginning of the post.
If you were able to read that this was test your might and not Twitter, you would’ve been able to read that too.