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Hidan vs Mustard

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
Here is footage of the SVB casual UK vs EU tournament.

Hidan has an incredible Quan Chi, the best Quan Chi I have ever seen, and he just signed unto the forum if anyone wants to contact him.


Enjoy.
 
He really knows what he's doing with Quan, especially being able to keep up with a Kung Lao and Cyrax. Though he did jump way too often against the KL, from jump distance, he could've d4+medium ex rune so many times to follow up with up a throw or a reset.
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
I dont understand why people refuse to see why quan chi isnt bottom tier.
His wake up options are terrible. And his strings are slow on start up, those are the things against him, but I agree that he isn't bottom tier.
 

eskuAdradit0

"Thanks" button abuser.
It's crazy how Quan had to rely on mixups and meter management on both characters while Cyrax just had to burn 1 meter to get 50% of Quan's health.
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
he depends a lot on his mixups which can all be fuzzy guarded. also his most effective specials are risky and highly punishable.
Cyber Sub Zero will ruin Quan Chi, he can't punish most of his dive kicks without using meter, and Cyber can fuzzy parry most of his strings on reaction while blocking.
 

PND_Mustard

"More stealthful than the night"
Elder God
Mustard needs to block low more and fuzzy the overheads.
yup, i went into training that night and tried learning a bit more about the matchup, back at svb i didnt really fuzzy guard anything, that was a while ago though so since then ive been blocking much better :D, gg's to hidan, solid!
 

kabelfritz

Master
Cyber Sub Zero will ruin Quan Chi, he can't punish most of his dive kicks without using meter, and Cyber can fuzzy parry most of his strings on reaction while blocking.
smoke does too. he shuts down all of quans specials so theres no way to get in. and if hes in, he can still be fuzzy guarded and d1ed.
 

TheChad_87

Bad Reputation
I play Cyrax as well, and I would like to say that, having played against a grand total of about 6 Quan Chis to date, that I think not knowing the match-up was pretty evident from that video, and it makes a HUGE difference. Having said that, I think Quan Chi is actually a bad match-up for Cyrax (as is Rain) due to having long juggle combos which need Breaker as well as a Meter-Draining EN Special that can sit in a combo.

I also don't agree that he is bottom tier (Well maybe since the patch buffed everyone. We'll need to give it time). Slow, predictable mix-up and shitty wake-ups aren't keeping Mileena out of the higher tiers. (No, I don't think Quan Chi is as good as Mileena, just pointing out the similarity between their "weaknesses").
 

UsedForGlue

"Strength isn't everything"
I play Cyrax as well, and I would like to say that, having played against a grand total of about 6 Quan Chis to date, that I think not knowing the match-up was pretty evident from that video, and it makes a HUGE difference. Having said that, I think Quan Chi is actually a bad match-up for Cyrax (as is Rain) due to having long juggle combos which need Breaker as well as a Meter-Draining EN Special that can sit in a combo.

I also don't agree that he is bottom tier (Well maybe since the patch buffed everyone. We'll need to give it time). Slow, predictable mix-up and shitty wake-ups aren't keeping Mileena out of the higher tiers. (No, I don't think Quan Chi is as good as Mileena, just pointing out the similarity between their "weaknesses").
People can talk about match ups match ups match ups. Mustard is being hard on himself along with a few people.

Talking about blocking low strings, and fuzzy guarding and knowing the match up all goes out the window against Hidan. He is allot harder to play against than we even see in this footage, he is no joke, and will destroy you for any mistake.
 

Fatality_check

Never Gonna Give
His wake up options are terrible. And his strings are slow on start up, those are the things against him, but I agree that he isn't bottom tier.
Yeah his wakeups! I mean, i've only started using him a bit but even using his enhanced tele is shit because by the time they've finished the string or poke they can block, and even if you land at the side you're not really in advantage. Well, that's how I feel from what i've used of him so far anyway :/
 

TheChad_87

Bad Reputation
Obviously, I didn't mean to make it sound as though Hidan wasn't a great player. He's obviously very en-pointe with everything and plays a great Quan Chi.

I still stand by my statement that not knowing a match-up makes it quite difficult. And I agree that low blocks/fuzzy guarding is not as easy as some people would like to lead others to believe. Especially against great players.
 

kabelfritz

Master
Obviously, I didn't mean to make it sound as though Hidan wasn't a great player. He's obviously very en-pointe with everything and plays a great Quan Chi.

I still stand by my statement that not knowing a match-up makes it quite difficult. And I agree that low blocks/fuzzy guarding is not as easy as some people would like to lead others to believe. Especially against great players.
its really easy against quan though. down up down, thats how you block and nothing will come through. his only real mixup is at the end of the high to low string, and that will only make you eat one hit.
 

TheChad_87

Bad Reputation
its really easy against quan though. down up down, thats how you block and nothing will come through. his only real mixup is at the end of the high to low string, and that will only make you eat one hit.
Which is where knowing the match-up comes into play... -_- We're talking in circles at this point.
 

TheChad_87

Bad Reputation
Sorry man if I confused the situation, your correct the match up experience helps, but it's not everything.
:)
Not at all. I completely agree with you. I could know the Kung Lao match-up like the back of my hand and Perfect Legend is still gonna stomp my ass. lol

didnt you just talk about fuzzy guarding and matchup knowledge separated?
I have NO earthly clue what you're trying to say ...
You have to know the match-up to know how to fuzzy guard. I can't even tell you which of Quan Chi's strings hit H/M/L at what point. I have no idea because I've probably played 6 Quan Chis max since launch, and I don't play tournaments. Just for fun, so I haven't really made an effort to learn it since it comes up so rarely.
 

kabelfritz

Master
Not at all. I completely agree with you. I could know the Kung Lao match-up like the back of my hand and Perfect Legend is still gonna stomp my ass. lol



I have NO earthly clue what you're trying to say ...
You have to know the match-up to know how to fuzzy guard. I can't even tell you which of Quan Chi's strings hit H/M/L at what point. I have no idea because I've probably played 6 Quan Chis max since launch, and I don't play tournaments. Just for fun, so I haven't really made an effort to learn it since it comes up so rarely.
ok whatever lol. in case you care, always fuzzy guard the first hit starting low, then go back to low for the 2nd hit and you have all combos covered (except a forgettable mixup option at the end of one string)
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
ok whatever lol. in case you care, always fuzzy guard the first hit starting low, then go back to low for the 2nd hit and you have all combos covered (except a forgettable mixup option at the end of one string)
You know...I'm seeing a lot of people simply saying that all one has to do against Quan is fuzzy guard and that's all. If you watch any of the matches Hidan was in, most of his opponents fuzzy guarded a few of his strings. Despite this, you have to let go of the block button sometime, and when you do, opportunities open. Very rarely, from what I've seen of these tournaments, do people sit back, hold block, fuzzy guard, and only react. They pursue their opponent and when they do, the opponent responds.

Maybe they didn't know the match-up. However, most players at that level can still read habits and patterns in what their opponents like to do, and those that adapt usually win. Simply because someone had never faced a Quan before doesn't mean that it was the sole reason they lost.

Also...while Quan's wake-ups are limited, his normals are slow...he has unique properties to him, specifically when it comes to Trance and the combo/meter building/draining opportunities it provides. If you block low often enough, as some people believe, you can always be hit next with an overhead, which would lead to another combo.

I suppose, in all of this, I am simply saying that one technique does not entire negate a character's usefulness. I'm of that mind that while some characters have better built-in strategies and properties to them that others do not...I believe that every character in this game is capable of beating every other character. It won't always be even or fair, but it can be done. I faintly recall seeing some videos where REO's Quan Chi did quite a number on Chris G's Reptile. Reptile, who is considered among one of the more high tier characters.