Video/Tutorial - Smoke Help with my SMORTEX please?

[FL Rushdown]

Lmao dude there is 3 frames of lag built in online , that's enough to screw it up right there. Oh u did it 9 out of 10 times after practicing for ten mins? So how many times u missed it in that ten mins? You just proved my point. And again even if they just block , a good player is going to start armoring you when they guess right anyway , hell you can njp after the b3 or b1, @RM Ree njp's me everytime he blocks something into smoke bomb. He has to make the read but yea there's been plenty of times he blocked the b3/b1 and njp'ed me , after the s3 nerf smokes vortex has many ways out , you have to mix it up to keep it going , it's not a simple overhead/low anymore.

A 3 frame link is pretty consistent if you have fighting game experience or are willing to practice it. If it nets you more dmg, or a better setup it's always be better to go for it unless you're in a situation where the easier link will kill regardless.

 

[boba_buster]

If they try to jump out and you hit them out the air they are gonna be able to get up and hit you while you are in the recovery of you smoke cloud whiffing

 

[boba_buster]

Im actually surprised your trying to simplify his vortex so much considering we've agreed on the complexity of the character before , and in other threads you've said you don't even use the vortex and that you go for knockdowns, so why do you feel so strongly about how his vortex should work? Honestly there is no right or wrong way , I exclusively use the vortex and my way works great for me , even more so when my opponent knows the mu well. I think jailing strings other than b3 are useful for several reasons , conditioning being a very big one. When I'm putting people in the vortex I don't want them armoring or jumping or trying to armor out when they block b1/b3 into smoke cloud. Let me try to explain it in a flow chart kind of way.
Your playing with someone who knows the mu well , i.e. Knows they can jump out , backdash , knows when they can armor thru things etc.
you hit them with something and end in spear jip 21 - they know they are being put in the vortex.
They are thinking " I think he's gonna go for the over head , Ima backdash/armor etc. "
The way this plays out is ~
you go for the b3 and hit them and vortex.

You go for the overhead and instead of being safe with the -6 smoke cloud , you get armored or even full combo whiff punished.

That's a 50/50

But what if you use f13 and hit them for trying to armor? When the b3 hits they jus think " oh I guessed wrong "
But when you show them you have other options than jus b3/b1 they think " shit I can't armor , backdash etc. "
so the next time you loop the vortex they are a lot less likely to try and armor or anything at any point.
And on top of that f13 is 2 hits into smoke cloud as opposed to 1 hit , so when they respect that it ruins there option of armoring when they guess the b3/b4 correctly

And then there is always the odd chance that even someone with perfect timing like you might accidentally miss time the b3 and get back dashed armored etc. anyway.

Even using strings other than 21 to end can help. You can f21phase into throw , or end in f13 and jail into another f13.
As a player who uses smokes vortex for my primary gameplan I find that constantly mixing it up and making your opponent feel like his only option is to block and make them scared to press buttons is more important than just flipping a coin. I feel like just going with the b3/b1 mix up gives them more chances for opening you up than you have to open them up. They can punish you multiple ways for going overhead and multiple ways for you going low , hell they can njp you after blocking the b3 or b1.
But like I said honestly it's all about what works for the person playing.
If you don't play anyone that abuses your gaps then hey , ggs

 

[boba_buster]

A 3 frame link is pretty consistent if you have fighting game experience or are willing to practice it. If it nets you more dmg, or a better setup it's always be better to go for it unless you're in a situation where the easier link will kill regardless.

It's not about ease really it more about conditioning them to block and not try to armor or anything else

 

[Beckmann_2420]

So I know smokes vortex isn't guaranteed like it used to be, but I want to get some opinions on if this is still the proper way to do it.

Starter xx smokecloud njp ji2 b21 xx trident ji2

Now from here is where the mindgames/reset happens.
After the ji2, I use either:

21 then the b1 xx ex smoke cloud (shitty that you have to ex the smoke bomb midscreen to get it to connect. I know it is character/distance dependant to connect regular smoke bomb off of b1 which is why I always meter burn smoke bomb after b1. Also know a meaty b1 into reg smoke bomb works, as well as b1 reg smoke bomb in the corner.)

21 b3 xx smoke bomb
21 run throw
F21 xx smoke towards ji1 and again either b1/b3/throw.

 

[boba_buster]

You can use ji3 or 4 instead of ji2 depending on the starter to get more damage , f13 is the only starter u need to use ji2 to connect

 

[boba_buster]

Starter xxsmoke cloud njp ji3/4 b21xxspear jip 21 does the same damage as starter xxsmoke cloud njp run s4 b21xxspear jip 21, but it doesn't use that precious stamina that we use on phase

 

[God Confirm]

Im actually surprised your trying to simplify his vortex so much considering we've agreed on the complexity of the character before

I never once said he is complex because of his vortex, which you are making unnecessarily worse for no real reason at all. His complexity lies in his phase shenanigans, if you were saying that he is complex because of his vortex than I misunderstood what you were saying and I completely disagree with that

and in other threads you've said you don't even use the vortex and that you go for knockdowns, so why do you feel so strongly about how his vortex should work?

I use the vortex, I just don't go for it. I take the vortex off F42 because its all you really get, and when I pressure with 21 staggers I take the vortex on hit if I miss the confirm (really difficult confirm). Regardless, I chose to use knockdown not because of lack of understanding of the vortex, but because I did the knowledge on both on weighed up both options. I could never use the vortex once and it still wouldn't make me wrong, if I'm right, so I don't know why you would try say this like it makes a difference. Also, if you aren't going for the 50/50 mix-up, it's no longer a vortex, it's just a restand. A vortex means literally a guaranteed 50/50 that loops into itself, and that is not what you are doing.

I think jailing strings other than b3 are useful for several reasons , conditioning being a very big one. When I'm putting people in the vortex I don't want them armoring or jumping or trying to armor out when they block b1/b3 into smoke cloud. Let me try to explain it in a flow chart kind of way.
Your playing with someone who knows the mu well , i.e. Knows they can jump out , backdash , knows when they can armor thru things etc.
you hit them with something and end in spear jip 21 - they know they are being put in the vortex.
They are thinking " I think he's gonna go for the over head , Ima backdash/armor etc. "
The way this plays out is ~
you go for the b3 and hit them and vortex.

You go for the overhead and instead of being safe with the -6 smoke cloud , you get armored or even full combo whiff punished.

That's a 50/50

But what if you use f13 and hit them for trying to armor? When the b3 hits they jus think " oh I guessed wrong "
But when you show them you have other options than jus b3/b1 they think " shit I can't armor , backdash etc. "
so the next time you loop the vortex they are a lot less likely to try and armor or anything at any point.
And on top of that f13 is 2 hits into smoke cloud as opposed to 1 hit , so when they respect that it ruins there option of armoring when they guess the b3/b4 correctly

And then there is always the odd chance that even someone with perfect timing like you might accidentally miss time the b3 and get back dashed armored etc. anyway.

Even using strings other than 21 to end can help. You can f21phase into throw , or end in f13 and jail into another f13.
As a player who uses smokes vortex for my primary gameplan I find that constantly mixing it up and making your opponent feel like his only option is to block and make them scared to press buttons is more important than just flipping a coin. I feel like just going with the b3/b1 mix up gives them more chances for opening you up than you have to open them up. They can punish you multiple ways for going overhead and multiple ways for you going low , hell they can njp you after blocking the b3 or b1.
But like I said honestly it's all about what works for the person playing.
If you don't play anyone that abuses your gaps then hey , ggs

None of this makes any sense, because they can backdash the Overhead~Bomb on block on reaction if they make that read, whether you are mixing in F13 or not. If they are armoring before the overhead read they are a maniac because they have a 1f window of success, or at least have to be a frame more accurate on the timing than you were with your own character. Not a single character in the game can full combo whiff punish a B1 unless you miss the window by like 15 frames. Sounds like either poor theory or poor execution if this is happening to you.

And all that aside even if it did do what you are saying it does, I don't know why you want to condition them not to backdash, when all things considered its probably the best response you can hope for if your opponent reads the Overhead. It leave them to getting opened up by your Low so its still entirely a read on the 50/50, and it leaves you completely safe even if they guess right unlike just blocking the overhead and jump punishing for free, and it even leaves you slightly plus even against the fastest backdash in the game, EVEN if your execution is off by up to 6 frames.

 

[Beckmann_2420]

Starter xxsmoke cloud njp ji3/4 b21xxspear jip 21 does the same damage as starter xxsmoke cloud njp run s4 b21xxspear jip 21, but it doesn't use that precious stamina that we use on phase

I don't even run. Just take a quick step forward. That's the issue the OP had and fixed it without running.

Also you get 1% more dmg by njp ji2 b21 trident ji2 21 than using njp s4 trident etc..

 

[boba_buster]

Do you even read my post before fire back trying to argue with me? You clearly have no idea what I'm even talking about. Smh. Go argue invalid points and opinions with someone else dude

 

[boba_buster]

I don't even run. Just take a quick step forward. That's the issue the OP had and fixed it without running.

True , I just always see ppl post it like that in combos lol

 

[God Confirm]

Do you even read my post before fire back trying to argue with me? You clearly have no idea what I'm even talking about. Smh. Go argue invalid points and opinions with someone else dude

I read the whole thing no matter how much it hurt my head, countered it where it was wrong with cleanly supported logic, now you are mad because you have literally nothing left to stand on. Take your shitty advice elsewhere kthxbai

 

[boba_buster]

I read the whole thing no matter how much it hurt my head, countered it where it was wrong with clearly supported logic, now you are mad because you have literally nothing left to stand on. Take your shitty advice elsewhere kthxbai

Lmao obviously your the one who's mad considering you've been chasing down my post trying to argue with me all day just because I have a different opinion than you. Not my fault you don't understand the concept of conditioning your opponent , I bet u do horrible in long sets. Either way , welcome to the ignore button bitch

 

[God Confirm]

Lmao obviously your the one who's mad considering you've been chasing down my post trying to argue with me all day just because I have a different opinion than you. Not my fault you don't understand the concept of conditioning your opponent , I bet u do horrible in long sets. Either way , welcome to the ignore button bitch

dude you get personal every single time someone disgarees with you, and couldn't even take valid criticism to your misinformation. I'm not chasing you down, for the sake of people on the receiving end of your "advice" I explained where you are wrong. You keep coming back with every post with a brand new argument as for why F4 is a great button to press when you have a jailing 50/50. It seems like you just want to press F4 after a restand tbh but stop spouting it out as good advice and supporting it with factually incorrect statements



Another one right here.

Starter xxsmoke cloud njp ji3/4 b21xxspear jip 21 does the same damage as starter xxsmoke cloud njp run s4 b21xxspear jip 21, but it doesn't use that precious stamina that we use on phase

You don't need to use stamina to connect the s4, and even if you do, the stamina has literally fully refueled before the spear animation has ended. Jesus christ do you even lab?




And for the record to be helpful even though you seem quite closed to that, both do less damage than NjP, 4~Phase, 4~Spear, JiP 21 which also builds you more meter and your opponent less, worth keeping in mind. And for the same damage, NjP, run under, 4, 4~Spear, JiP 21 does the same amount but swaps sides if you want it.

 

[Thefish]

I use f21 a lot with smoke, that move allows specials to be delayed so you can reset through that. Also low conditioning with f213 then hit them with the overhead tele can be good. I try to be annoying and all over the place. Ending in f21 phase forward jump over punch f21 phase forward again then f21 overhead or low. Even f21 into meter burn evaporate then jump in mix up or run in mix up can really mess with heads once the smoke clears and your not there. He's good fun.

 

[RM AtK!]

this thread lol

 

[boba_buster]

I don't even run. Just take a quick step forward. That's the issue the OP had and fixed it without running.

Also you get 1% more dmg by njp ji2 b21 trident ji2 21 than using njp s4 trident etc..

You get 1% more using a jik as opposed to a jip

 

[Beckmann_2420]

You get 1% more using a jik as opposed to a jip

True. But my lack of skills finds it alot easier to do ji2

 

[boba_buster]

True. But my lack of skills finds it alot easier to do ji2

Lol I hear ya dude , apparently everyone else on tym has perfect inputs lol I'll take the 1% damage loss for ease of input and little extra corner carry any day

 

[PLAY FOR KEEPSIES]

Lol I hear ya dude , apparently everyone else on tym has perfect inputs lol I'll take the 1% damage loss for ease of input and little extra corner carry any day

honestly, u didnt even describe it as something to make inputs easier u actually said that if you arent doing it then you must be playing against people who dont know the match up well, which is wrong, and only now are you backing out to "begineers advice". he also made the pretty good point that you have to miss by like a lot of frames to give your opponent 1 frame to armor and if they miss that window they are getting opened up, so basically u have to play really badly for this to ever backfire on u. in fact all the advice you gave in here is pretty low level or just incorrect and that was pretty well explained by god confirm

if u are going to give beginners advice then u need to call it that and not get upset when people explain that the best way to reset a vortex, is not with a mid because its easier.especially when there is no reversal opportunity.... poor advice

That logic is so bad it doesn't justify a response

agreed unfortunately it had to get multiple

 

[boba_buster]

honestly, u didnt even describe it as something to make inputs easier u actually said that if you arent doing it then you must be playing against people who dont know the match up well, which is wrong, and only now are you backing out to "begineers advice". he also made the pretty good point that you have to miss by like a lot of frames to give your opponent 1 frame to armor and if they miss that window they are getting opened up, so basically u have to play really badly for this to ever backfire on u. in fact all the advice you gave in here is pretty low level or just incorrect and that was pretty well explained by god confirm

if u are going to give beginners advice then u need to call it that and not get upset when people explain that the best way to reset a vortex, is not with a mid because its easier.especially when there is no reversal opportunity.... poor advice



agreed unfortunately it had to get multiple

Why would anybody drag this drama back up ???
Secondly that first post you quoted has nothing to do with what me and God confirm were talking bout , that post was about inputs for a combo.
Why is there so many trash talking bandwagon jumpers here jus looking for an argument.
And once again , 21 ender is +17 ... B3 starts up in 15 frames ... That's not exactly hard to mistime a little ... Even god confirm said he wasn't hitting it perfectly at first when he practiced in the lab ... Hell scar got rolled out of his b3 reset by foxy ... Shit happens and there ain't nothing low level bout making a hard read and going for something with higher damage than the regular 23% reset.
smoke forums are a joke

 

[God Confirm]

lol dude, you are Boba Busta. You say dumb shit, and people eventually have enough of it and have to correct you. It's just the circle of life.

 

[DarksydeDash]

Smortex sounds like a delcious texas smoked smores. I'm hungry now, nerf this thread.