Question - Grandmaster Help with Kang (DF) and Lao (Buzzsaw)

[LaidbackOne]

Just got bodied by those 2 characters or more by players that used them D). Kang was Zoning heavy and Lao uber rushdown.
How do I react to all those safe strings and specials? The only unsafe thing Kang used was his fireball and he didnt use it from a range I could punish except EX slide and EX ice ball. Lao can make almost everything safe with the low hat, didnt know what to do because of it aswell.
Hope to get some useful info from you guys! <3

 

[lm Tweakk]

Liu kangs pokes are slow ass hell on startup , just counter poke well against him and pressure him to death.

 

[LaidbackOne]

Liu kangs pokes are slow ass hell on startup , just counter poke well against him and pressure him to death.

The thing is its pretty hard to pressure a character that has safe armored and pretty fast specials or is it just me?

 

[Qwark28]

Both me and @UsedForGlue have played @A F0xy Grampa 's Lao and have different views on the matchup. He swears by Unbreakable, I swear by Grandmaster. He plays F0xy a lot more often than I.

Pros of Grandmaster

Better footsie dominance
Better corner control
Can turtle after establishing midscreen clone presence
Can counterzone with a chunk of damage via clone throw
Tons of damage in the corner via Shatter mixups

Pros of Unbreakable

You don't care about his low hat, you don't have to make any movement whatsoever, you can't be chipped
You can apply mixups more often than Grandmaster with minimal punishment
KL 1 bar BNB reduced from 35-38% to about 22%, you effectively have more life
Can turtle as soon as he has the lead via ice aura and KL has to chase him more often than Grandmaster. While Grandmaster can turtle, it requires you to set up a clone and then you can start doing so while Unbreakable just activates the aura and lames KL out
Very rarely uses breakers, the punishes you receive are very often not worth the meter
You have a full combo punishable/combo granting parry which makes him hesitant to apply his normal mixups on you

 

[Invincible Salads]

very few of lao's strings are safe on block, in fact i think all except his 11 string are minus.

unfortunately some of his strings that don't lead to anything are really negative for no reason.

 

[Braindead]

Both me and @UsedForGlue have played @A F0xy Grampa 's Lao and have different views on the matchup. He swears by Unbreakable, I swear by Grandmaster. He plays F0xy a lot more often than I.

Pros of Grandmaster

Better footsie dominance
Better corner control
Can turtle after establishing midscreen clone presence
Can counterzone with a chunk of damage via clone throw
Tons of damage in the corner via Shatter mixups

Pros of Unbreakable

You don't care about his low hat, you don't have to make any movement whatsoever, you can't be chipped
You can apply mixups more often than Grandmaster with minimal punishment
KL 1 bar BNB reduced from 35-38% to about 22%, you effectively have more life
Can turtle as soon as he has the lead via ice aura and KL has to chase him more often than Grandmaster. While Grandmaster can turtle, it requires you to set up a clone and then you can start doing so while Unbreakable just activates the aura and lames KL out
Very rarely uses breakers, the punishes you receive are very often not worth the meter
You have a full combo punishable/combo granting parry which makes him hesitant to apply his normal mixups on you

I haven't seen much of KL playing, but if they like opening people with 44 you can interrupt that with a parry because it has a gap.

 

[LaidbackOne]

Big thx for all responses. In Laos case, are there any major gaps I can try ex db1 or 11 ice ball?

 

[Braindead]

Big thx for all responses. In Laos case, are there any major gaps I can try ex db1 or 11 ice ball?

You can ex db1 between 44, but I don't know if you can do 11 in that gap.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Both me and @UsedForGlue have played @A F0xy Grampa 's Lao and have different views on the matchup. He swears by Unbreakable, I swear by Grandmaster. He plays F0xy a lot more often than I.

Pros of Unbreakable

You don't care about his low hat, you don't have to make any movement whatsoever, you can't be chipped
You can apply mixups more often than Grandmaster with minimal punishment
KL 1 bar BNB reduced from 35-38% to about 22%, you effectively have more life
Can turtle as soon as he has the lead via ice aura and KL has to chase him more often than Grandmaster. While Grandmaster can turtle, it requires you to set up a clone and then you can start doing so while Unbreakable just activates the aura and lames KL out
Very rarely uses breakers, the punishes you receive are very often not worth the meter
You have a full combo punishable/combo granting parry which makes him hesitant to apply his normal mixups on you

All of this is spot on.

The biggest deal is that he can't really take advantage of his MB low hat on block, as you can still parry him.
While Sub Zero is doing 30% meter-less, Kung Lao is doing 22% for a bar of meter.
His B2 low hat is now only 5%, Throws are 8%
And in Unbreakable, you have a true advantage block string at +7, with F4 Aura into B12, F12, Cross up, Throw, and it can only be armoured out of, jump overs will catch a back dash, so will B12.
This also allows for risks to be taken on B2's from Sub Zero, as again, KL's punishment is seriously reduced.

 

[Endeavor]

So how are my fellow Grandmasters dealing with D"Vorah and Kang, Im starting to feel Liu shuts grandmaster completely down.

 

[LaidbackOne]

All of this is spot on.

The biggest deal is that he can't really take advantage of his MB low hat on block, as you can still parry him.
While Sub Zero is doing 30% meter-less, Kung Lao is doing 22% for a bar of meter.
His B2 low hat is now only 5%, Throws are 8%
And in Unbreakable, you have a true advantage block string at +7, with F4 Aura into B12, F12, Cross up, Throw, and it can only be armoured out of, jump overs will catch a back dash, so will B12.
This also allows for risks to be taken on B2's from Sub Zero, as again, KL's punishment is seriously reduced.

Do you have any videos of your Unbreakable Sub? Didnt see anyone using this variation yet and after seeing your Batman Im sure it would be pretty informative.

 

[UsedForGlue]

Do you have any videos of your Unbreakable Sub? Didnt see anyone using this variation yet and after seeing your Batman Im sure it would be pretty informative.

I don't think there are any yet. Il check Ketchup's twitch.

 

[Iced_Taz]

I have a question guys. How to punish Kung Lao teleport throw? I tried uppercut but maybe there is a more damaging punisher