Tech Harley Quinn: Art of Dealing with Wake-Ups

[cpmd4]

Can you elaborate on the invincibilty/back dash around 1:50ish? I will admit I am still confused how armor works in this game compared to MK and feel like I am more often getting hit when I think I am protected.

Armor makes you immune to knockdowns/juggles/throws, but you will still take damage. Think Doomsday's trait. Armor takes a set amount of hits before it runs out. MB b3 universally has one hit of armor, so a fast multi-hitting attack will essentially remove your armor, wasting your attempt.

All character's backdashes have frames of invincibility. This negates everything, as if the attack never hit you. If you backdash at the precise moment you can avoid any and everything, like interactables that are thrown at you. However, the frames are few and so last a fraction of a second.

MB b3 can be dash-cancelled, that's what he is doing at 1:50. So in the video, after Batgirl hits away Harley's armor from the MB b3, she backdashes to avoid the second hit of Batgirl's attack.

 

[Laos_boy]

There's been some tech surfacing on a lot of the other threads regarding wakeup input reversals. It usually involves a hard knockdown in the corner and then dashing into the corner at the proper time, or some kind of airdash or neutral jump shenanigan. I was trying to find something with Harley but I had very little time to test different things. I tried dashing into the corner after 112 and D3 but couldn't get it to work, and I also tried SS off of both these. Anybody want to help me figure this out? I probably won't be able to play again til friday

Okay I just found something. I'll post it shortly

 

[Laos_boy]

Okay this tech reverses wake ups.

uhfutzafooken
AK SaltFace
KS_Shogun
k1nG_Qu1nN
xWEBSx
deg222

 

[dotunderscore]

Thanks for the awesome response. Quick followup question about this part:

Armor makes you immune to knockdowns/juggles/throws, but you will still take damage. Think Doomsday's trait. Armor takes a set amount of hits before it runs out. MB b3 universally has one hit of armor, so a fast multi-hitting attack will essentially remove your armor, wasting your attempt.

So for the universal armor (like MB B3) is the armor activated on set frames (e.g. 1-10) or is it activated when the first hit?

This is the scenario I ran into the other day. I was fighting a Superman and I was sitting on full meter. He was using Heat Zap from full screen which I can usually just shoot him out of. I figured I would just nakedly throw out the Super, take the one hit and the hammer would hit before he recovered. The Super came out but he hit me and the match was over.

As I am writing this I am wondering if he had trait on and went through it. I don't think Heat Zap is multiple hits. I guess it could also be that I still took the damage.

Thanks again for the explanation - I didn't know the backdash avoidance was based off invincible frames. Very interesting.

 

[cpmd4]

Thanks for the awesome response. Quick followup question about this part:



So for the universal armor (like MB B3) is the armor activated on set frames (e.g. 1-10) or is it activated when the first hit?

This is the scenario I ran into the other day. I was fighting a Superman and I was sitting on full meter. He was using Heat Zap from full screen which I can usually just shoot him out of. I figured I would just nakedly throw out the Super, take the one hit and the hammer would hit before he recovered. The Super came out but he hit me and the match was over.

As I am writing this I am wondering if he had trait on and went through it. I don't think Heat Zap is multiple hits. I guess it could also be that I still took the damage.

Thanks again for the explanation - I didn't know the backdash avoidance was based off invincible frames. Very interesting.

Yeah, this sounds like he damaged you enough to kill you. Especially since most super moves have at least 2 hits of armor. However, I am not actually sure if its set frames (I think it is), but I can't say 100%.

 

[dotunderscore]

Just went and tested it for a bit - His trait burned right through Harley's armor (and still got 16% damage as well - bastard)

 

[cpmd4]

Just went and tested it for a bit - His trait burned right through Harley's armor (and still got 16% damage as well - bastard)

Yeah, Supes' trait burns through all hits of armor with one hit. Some MB'd interactables have "super armor" which is essentially unbreakable, but Supes' can take it all away in a jab. Gotta be careful with armor around him.

 

[uhfutzafooken]

Okay this tech reverses wakeups

Wow nicely done laos boy! How strict would you say the timing is for the SS? I think when I tried it before I was doing it too early after the 33. Were you able to get it after a 112?

EDIT: I guess overall this might not be too useful since her corner combos ending in PD already negate wakeups and do max damage. Still good to have options against people who mash wakeups. I wonder how much advantage you maintain after the dash if they just block? Unless she has something like this midscreen (ending combos with TS > roll is the only thing I can think of) idk if this input reversal tech is all that useful for Harley.

 

[deg222]

Okay this tech reverses wake ups.

uhfutzafooken
AK SaltFace
KS_Shogun
k1nG_Qu1nN
xWEBSx
deg222

I was testing this last night, and while it seemed easy to do with the computer set to wakeup..... it seemed much more difficult if I had Harley on record and myself performing the wakeup attack.

 

[Laos_boy]

I was testing this last night, and while it seemed easy to do with the computer set to wakeup..... it seemed much more difficult if I had Harley on record and myself performing the wakeup attack.

I just found another set up.
B22 ts 1 j2 f13 112 (whiff) f13. Then the wake up attack will reverse
uhfutzafooken

 

[uhfutzafooken]

I just found another set up.
B22 ts 1 j2 f13 112 (whiff) f13. Then the wake up attack will reverse
uhfutzafooken

This ones a bit more serviceable. Does the whole F13 string whiff or just the F1? F13 is still -8 on block correct? Goddamn I wish I could test this crap out lol.

 

[Laos_boy]

This ones a bit more serviceable. Does the whole F13 string whiff or just the F1? F13 is still -8 on block correct? Goddamn I wish I could test this crap out lol.

There's a video in the original post. But yes the whole string whiff. But I'm still able to punish the wake. And I found something interesting while testing this tech I was actually able to make f13 cross up. But I am unable to recreate it

 

[Jermball]

Edit: I did Not Know Canceling into b3 cost two bars of meter... So this is really useless

Here are ways to reverse wake ups

Thoughts?
I know theres different and better ways to deal with Wake ups. But just add these to the bag of tricks.
xWEBSx
AK SaltFace
@Sonicfox500
KS_Shogun
k1nG_Qu1nN
@Burgersssssss

laos boy.. even with the bounce cancel costing 2 bars it's an idea.

Personally i'll end everything in TS forward roll...if they tech roll they'll most likely wake up..by this time you've already gotten up off the ground and can do another move (usually I MB B3 if i see a wake up) and if they don't tech roll, it's a free nj 2 crossup. otherwise i've been doing 112 ss, then dash and NJ and it works the same way without tantrum stance (you can't do a long drawn out combo, or else 112 pushes them too far.

 

[deg222]

I just found another set up.
B22 ts 1 j2 f13 112 (whiff) f13. Then the wake up attack will reverse
uhfutzafooken

This is so legit. It even works on characters like Superman, Doomsday, Batgirl, etc. who have wakeups with inputs like db2 and df2. With Superman, even though you're crossing him up briefly with the f13, the rising grab will be performed into the corner.

 

[nightE89]

I just found another set up.
B22 ts 1 j2 f13 112 (whiff) f13. Then the wake up attack will reverse

Good shit man have to give this a spin tonight