What's new

Glitch Canceling and Frame Advantage Update

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
When you pause the game, and press shift+P, it will advance the game one frame at a time, between which, you can press and hold a key or button for an attack or direction. So basically you pause it, hold the button or key, then press shift+P (tap P to advance more frames) while still holding for a couple frames, then you can release everything, but still make sure the game is paused, and then press another button or key and reume the frame advancing.
 

Remz

wavenet.remz.ca
Thanks Shock!
It is also known that the animation and actual position are one tick/frame off as well. Would that mean that the player with frame advantage also has an extra frame to block sweeps when starting from the standing positioin?
I tested it, and so far I found that the attacks of the player who doesn't have frame advantage always connect a single frame later, but if that player do a sweep and the other player want to block it from standing position, he must press down-block at the exact same frame no matter who have the advantage. The "added" frame is like a mini freeze and is unblockable. If the player who doensn't have it do a knee lift and the other start his knee lift one frame later (of course they don't hit at the same time), the first one will connect, so the extra frame is removed in that case.

I'll do more testing about the role of frame advantage in breakable combos later.
 
Would this explain why you cant ever beat the CPU to a throw no matter how hard you try with any char? (KABAL!) Would it be possible that the CPU always starts off with the slight frame advantage, and the human with the glitch advantage?
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
No, the CPU's throwing ability is complete cheating of the system. They can throw you at any time, canceling any move they do, like specials, sweeps, uppercuts, etc, once beyond a certain difficulty level.
 

ZAQ

Banned
Nothing is cooler than throwing AI Kabal out of his dash and getting thrown because of that lol.
MORTAL KOMBAAAAAAAAAAAT!!!
 
So ur saying basically that the CPU's advantage is not a frame advantage but an utter lack of fairness? I was just wondering because when i saw this the first thing I thought of was the CPU constantly doing Kano's supposedly "charge" move back and forth constantly.
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
CPU can do any special move limitlessly, infinitely and contiguously, and can cancel any frame of animation into a throw if you get what would have been a successful throw on them. They also recover faster from stun and can get up faster (including instant run once landing)
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
adolfo, please read through the guides, many of your questions can be answered there just by reading over them.
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
Even more important, is there a sure way to find out who has it, and other ways it can be exploited now.
I was just messing around with UMK3 and I decided to see if there was a correlation between overlapping sprites and frame advantage/glitch canceling, because I always suspected there was and couldn't remember if we ever discussed it, but it's one of those things I never really decided to test. So anyway I was practicing some juggles earlier and I said "I really need to just test this out" hit F3, chose Reptile and Scorpion. Paused the game, held HP on both sides, frame advanced until contact and P2 Scorpion won. He also was beneath Reptile's sprite the frame before Reptile sold the hit.

Reset, selected the same characters. Pushed them up to each other, Scorpion was overlapping Reptile. Did the HP test. Reptile won.

Tested it again, predicted the outcome 10 times in a row. So I can say with much certainty that the default underlapping character has frame advantage, and the overlapping character can glitch cancel, but this could just be a major coincidence.

Now, I say default because there are things that cause the overlap to switch, but the underlapping character at the start of the round has frame advantage. If two characters go to attack each other at the same time, the advantaged character will win and always be beneath the other character's sprite, however, if that character does an attack, without resistance our non-neutral state, the advantaged character will then overlap until the other character attacks. This can be puzzling if you're for some reason looking to see if you have frame advantage.

It's still tricky, but this definitely is a surefire way to know, even though it has its own nuances and the window to see it is miniscule. If anyone wants to test a bunch of scenarios and lay them out, please do so, I have to leave for now and probably won't get back to this for weeks. Essentially, I'd like to know what moves cause the switch in overlap and the best times to notice it, other than the old simultaneous contact.
 

summoning

Noncompliance to ASTM F 899-12 Standard
once again , a great find shock! imagine you master the FA , its like card counting :)
 

AC1984

Kaballin!
Good job buddy... too bad i don't udnerstand 99% of that stuff...still thanks for taking the time to explore the possibilities and the boundaries of the game.
 

Konqrr

You will learn respect!
Interesting find. If there was a way to discover who has FA without failing a GC combo, that would be awesome.
 

O Juggernaut 0

Ambassador
It's always annoying to me when I'm playing a match, and I realize my opponent has frame advantage. It's obvious in some situations if you know what to look for. Especially annoying if they are Kabal.

Doesn't FA switch every round?
 

Dark_Rob

Noob
It's always annoying to me when I'm playing a match, and I realize my opponent has frame advantage. It's obvious in some situations if you know what to look for. Especially annoying if they are Kabal.

Doesn't FA switch every round?
Phil told me it was random as far as who has FA and who has GC.
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
It's random at the start of every round and I have never found a pattern and I have extensively tried, it's always different. I haven't gotten to test the frame overlapping much more yet either. I have had times where the first character who overlaps in a round by default does not have glitch canceling, but it's forever and always applicable when there are two attacks happening. So basically, if you would two characters up to each other, you still don't know who has frame advantage based upon the overlap for sure. I guess perhaps the rounds always just start with player 1 overlapping player 2, but the FA/GC selection is still random. The main point right now is, overlapping character during contact of attacks = GC always. This is something you can visually recognize without taking a risk, but looking for it in a way is always a distraction in itself.
 

umk3

Noob
It's random at the start of every round and I have never found a pattern and I have extensively tried, it's always different. I haven't gotten to test the frame overlapping much more yet either. I have had times where the first character who overlaps in a round by default does not have glitch canceling, but it's forever and always applicable when there are two attacks happening. So basically, if you would two characters up to each other, you still don't know who has frame advantage based upon the overlap for sure. I guess perhaps the rounds always just start with player 1 overlapping player 2, but the FA/GC selection is still random. The main point right now is, overlapping character during contact of attacks = GC always. This is something you can visually recognize without taking a risk, but looking for it in a way is always a distraction in itself.
................


In sega genesis
if you played with Nightwolf.On Portal or Pit 3 areas nightwolf axe works verywell

on other areas it notwork.

is this glitchcancel or frame advantage
 

Shock

Administrator
Administrator
................


In sega genesis
if you played with Nightwolf.On Portal or Pit 3 areas nightwolf axe works verywell

on other areas it notwork.

is this glitchcancel or frame advantage
what's up?