Guide - Ruthless Give it a try if you enjoy the struggle [9/01 update: Guide will be completely reworked]

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

guize

the game has changed

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

guize

the game has changed

I wasn't sure this thread would ever reach page two. Holy shit though. Ruthless just got good.

• Ferra/Torr - Adjusted several regular attack collisions to hit more consistently on ducking opponents and in combos
• Ferra/Torr - Increased damage of Tuck 'n' Trample to 13 (up from 9)
• Ferra/Torr (Ruthless) - Removed 20 recovery frames from Pain And Gain
• Ferra/Torr (Ruthless) - You can now dash cancel out of Pain And Gain after being stabbed, doing so will knock Ferra off of your back
• Ferra/Torr (Lackey) - Torr Charge (Meter Burn) no longer ignores damage scaling and had its damage increased by 2

I've only skimmed over the patch notes, but it looks like almost everyone got a net buff, so I think everybody is a bit excited right now. I still think Ruthless got buffed more than average: 20 frames off of PnG with the option to dash cancel immediately after the buff. Kind of sad the other two didn't really get much from what I'm seeing.

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

Yea, I would have loved to see Vicious get an EX Boss Toss, or maybe another cancellable string. But Honestly I really like these changes, Ruthless just got way more fun

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

SO this is what I came up with in the first hour or two post patch.

This one is pretty useless, but it just shows what the continuos damage potential is, 103%

more viable, but the cancel window after b121 is teeny tiny, 11 is much easier, but slightly less damage only a percent or two

Now i really have to sleep before class, but the combos are calling to meeee

 

[Catnip_Her0]

The 42 brought a tear to my eye

 

[TotallyNotKotalKahn]

So that cancel is way faster than I thought it would be. Can we sneak a stack mid combo after a f2?

 

[Kamikaze_Highlander]

So that cancel is way faster than I thought it would be. Can we sneak a stack mid combo after a f2?

Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup, F2, njp, b121xxP'n'G

 

[Forr]

Patch has completely changed how Ruthless will play so I will try to compile some useful information over the next few weeks with some help. Guide will be completely reworked.

 

[Pudding&Pie]

omg i love this change! the main annoyance i had was weak punishes now thats gone

 

[MadeOfMetal]

It resets to 8 seconds every time it's used.

ive been looking for this answer for a while....

can i ask some questions?

What is the ticker time on P&G? 8 sec?

What resets this Ticker?

What cancels the ticker?

What does this armor do? i cant seem to get armor from P&G maybe im expecting it to be like Quans and its not?

How long does the Armor last?

 

[Sutter Pain]

ive been looking for this answer for a while....

can i ask some questions?

What is the ticker time on P&G? 8 sec?

What resets this Ticker?

What cancels the ticker?

What does this armor do? i cant seem to get armor from P&G maybe im expecting it to be like Quans and its not?

How long does the Armor last?

Armor only last during the active frames of the of the P&G animation, maybe 1-2 +/-, I was pretty disappointed when I learned of this but it still has it uses even more now with the buffs.

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

ive been looking for this answer for a while....

can i ask some questions?

What is the ticker time on P&G? 8 sec?

What resets this Ticker?

What cancels the ticker?

What does this armor do? i cant seem to get armor from P&G maybe im expecting it to be like Quans and its not?

How long does the Armor last?

It lasts 10 seconds of real time. The in-game clock is noticeably slower than actual time, it might be ~8 seconds in-game.

Activating PnG resets it to 10 seconds again. I don't think anything else resets it.

The X-Ray cancels it. You can be hit and still keep the buff.

All armor does the same thing--makes you immune to hitstun. You still take damage the same though, which is why armor is not protection from lethal. However many hits of armor you have is how many hits the armor absorbs (no hitstun) basically allowing you to either block what would otherwise be a combo, or even to stuff your opponent.

It lasts the entire duration of PnG's Startup and Recovery frames. That means that if you Cancel out of PnG immediately, you'll only keep the armor for 1-2 frames (if the in-game frame data is correct. I'm skeptical that the Startup is truly only 1 frame). If you do not cancel PnG, then that's like 52 frames of armor.

For clarity, that's 52 frames of 1 hit of armor on the first stack. What this means is that if the enemy hits you twice very quickly, the second hit goes right through your armor because the first hit broke the armor e.g. Liu Kang's Bicycle Fist, and you will experience hitstun. You get more points of armor on the 2nd and 3rd stacks.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

It lasts 10 seconds of real time. The in-game clock is noticeably slower than actual time, it might be ~8 seconds in-game.

Activating PnG resets it to 10 seconds again. I don't think anything else resets it.

To my knowledge nothing cancels it either. You can be hit and still keep the buff.

All armor does the same thing--makes you immune to hitstun. You still take damage the same though, which is why armor is not protection from lethal. However many hits of armor you have is how many hits the armor absorbs (no hitstun) basically allowing you to either block what would otherwise be a combo, or even to stuff your opponent.

It lasts the entire duration of PnG's Startup and Recovery frames. That means that if you Cancel out of PnG immediately, you'll only keep the armor for 1-2 frames (if the in-game frame data is correct. I'm skeptical that the Startup is truly only 1 frame). If you do not cancel PnG, then that's like 52 frames of armor.

For clarity, that's 52 frames of 1 hit of armor on the first stack. What this means is that if the enemy hits you twice very quickly, the second hit goes right through your armor because the first hit broke the armor e.g. Liu Kang's Bicycle Fist, and you will experience hitstun. You get more points of armor on the 2nd and 3rd stacks.

ty, so if i keep the pressur with B121 DD1 and continue this each time putting my opponent on Blockstun so they cant retaliate if i hit them, it make it harder for them to reversal? basically its like a dumbed down version of Tremor's Crystalline Armor?

sowith this new trait, would you say he make it out of bottom tier? along with his new frames on 11/D1, D3 and so on, and his B23,2+4/F2 being safe on block?

i have been useing B121P&G to set stacks, then B23,2+4, F3,11,DBF1 Level3P&G/BF3=49%

 

[Beef Supreme]

I'm mostly a vicious player but I thought I'd try Ruthless after the patch. I'm having some issues with the PnG cancel; if I do 1,1 xxPnG RCxxf2 the combo keeps dropping after the starter string, giving them a chance to block. However, if I do 4 xx PnG RC xx f2 I can hit it a bit more consistently. Anyone else having issues trying to combo off the run cancel out of strings that have more push back?

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

ty, so if i keep the pressur with B121 DD1 and continue this each time putting my opponent on Blockstun so they cant retaliate if i hit them, it make it harder for them to reversal? basically its like a dumbed down version of Tremor's Crystalline Armor?

sowith this new trait, would you say he make it out of bottom tier? along with his new frames on 11/D1, D3 and so on, and his B23,2+4/F2 being safe on block?

i have been useing B121P&G to set stacks, then B23,2+4, F3,11,DBF1 Level3P&G/BF3=49%

B121xx PnG is potentially punishable because PnG Recovers so slowly, but a lot of times your opponent might just hit you while you have armor, and then maybe you can punish them pretty hard, especially if you PnG stack 2 during your punish combo.

I think Ruthless is probably mid tier, maybe slightly below average still. It was definitely one of the worst variations before the PnG run cancel.

I think your b23, 2+4 combo is good if you want to push the opponent forward. If you want a little more damage, or to throw them behind you, you can try b23, 2+4, run forward, d3, f2, (either): b121, dbf1 (or): 4, dbf1. The only trick is the d3 before you flip them. Do the d3 early, it hits higher than it looks. See if you like it.

 

[The Stone Monkey]

I believe xrays cancel the PnG timer right?

 

[MadeOfMetal]

I believe xrays cancel the PnG timer right?

i generally dont use xray so i think ill be fine. but good to know

 

[The Stone Monkey]

i generally dont use xray so i think ill be fine. but good to know

i think getting hit by one ends it as well ._.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

i think getting hit by one ends it as well ._.

yeah most last about 10 seconds or so right?

 

[MadeOfMetal]

B121xx PnG is potentially punishable because PnG Recovers so slowly, but a lot of times your opponent might just hit you while you have armor, and then maybe you can punish them pretty hard, especially if you PnG stack 2 during your punish combo.

I think Ruthless is mid tier. It was definitely one of the worst variations before the PnG run cancel.

I think your b23, 2+4 combo is a slightly sub-optimal. If you want a little more damage, you can try b23, 2+4, run forward, d3, f2, (either): b121, dbf1 (or): 4, dbf1. The only trick is the d3 before you flip them. Do the d3 early, it hits higher than it looks. See if you like it.

wait im confused, doesn't the PnG Armor last for the entire Recovery frames?

 

[Wetdoba]

wait im confused, doesn't the PnG Armor last for the entire Recovery frames?

armor lasts the entire recovery, damage lasts 10 seconds

 

[MadeOfMetal]

armor lasts the entire recovery, damage lasts 10 seconds

so in your opinion i should be safe using B121 PnG because they wouldnt be able to punish unless they used multi hitting normal, or special as reversal punish?

 

[Wetdoba]

so in your opinion i should be safe using B121 PnG because they wouldnt be able to punish unless they used multi hitting normal, or special as reversal punish?

Yep, if they try to reversal too thats only one hit then do a delayed cancel out of it into F2 for a punish. Just make sure the cancel out of pain n gain is after you absorb the hit though

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Yep, if they try to reversal too thats only one hit then do a delayed cancel out of it into F2 for a punish. Just make sure the cancel out of pain n gain is after you absorb the hit though

thanks for the tip, and thanks for confirmation i knew that I wasn't crazy... LOL

 

[Trauma_and_Pain]

The times when b121xx PnG are punishable is when you run cancel PnG and then you get hit, or if you get hit twice somehow during recovery e.g. Windmill Punch or Punchwalk.

Also yeah, if an X-Ray connects by either player it cancels PnG, just tested that.