Match-up Discussion Freddy Krueger Matchup Discussion Thread

[Konqrr]

Introduction

The point of this thread is to discuss Freddy's match ups, but you should probably read my Freddy guide before you proceed. This thread is a never-ending project, and I will keep updating this post with fresh information for as long as I play the game and the character. I have put a lot of time and effort into the character even before he was tournament legal, but my opinion is not the be-all and end-all. I encourage everyone to post his or her match up chart too, so we can engage in a healthy discussion.

The following is the latest match up chart according to DarKNaTas, Viper, and me. I've compromised on some match ups when there were the few disagreements that we had. In parenthesis, I will list the opinion of the best player for that character if I know what it is.

- m2dave

Match Ups

Freddy vs. (Freddy's number is listed first)

Baraka: 6.5:3.5

Cyber Sub Zero: 5:5

Cyrax: 5:5

Ermac: 6:4

Jade: 6:4

Jax: 5:5

Johnny Cage: 5.5:4.5 (5:5, CURBOLICOUS)

Kabal: 4.5:5.5 (4:6, REO)

Kano: 6:4

Kenshi: 5:5

Kitana: 6:4

Kung Lao: 4:6

Liu Kang: 6:4 (4:6, XBlades)

Mileena: 4:6 (possible 5:5 in the future, Death)

Nighwolf: 6:4

Noob Saibot: 6:4

Quan Chi: 5:5

Raiden: 4:6

Rain: 5:5

Reptile: 5:5

Scorpion: 5:5

Sektor: 5:5 (6:4, IKizzle)

Shang Tsung: 6:4

Sheeva: 7:3

Sindel: 5:5

Skarlet: 5.5:4.5

Smoke: 4:6

Sonya: 5.5:4.5 (6:4, Riu48)

Stryker: 6:4

Sub Zero: 6.5:3.5 (6:4, Tom Brady)

 

[InstantClasSiik]

I've already played a few Freddy's, and I used Smoke every time. IMO This match up is [Smoke 6-4 Freddy]. Smoke can shake Freddy's projectiles and has faster normals/ pokes up close, which gave me the advantage in every match. However, in the right hands if Freddy does catch Smoke in a combo it will hurt.

 

[TheChad_87]

I've already played a few Freddy's, and I used Smoke every time. IMO This match up is [Smoke 6-4 Freddy]. Smoke can shake Freddy's projectiles and has faster normals/ pokes up close, which gave me the advantage in every match. However, in the right hands if Freddy does catch Smoke in a combo it will hurt.

There is NO WAY to tell this day 1 ... Hell, i don;t even think the Rain Match-Up data has had enough time for it to be accurate.
For that matter, I tend to believe a large number of the core cast have inaccurate numbers due to lack of experience.

 

[PANDEMlC]

Freddy vs SubZero is a 10-0 matchup. Ice balls go through freddy and freddy has the fastest projectile next to Skarlet, he also has a teleport for keeping away. All while building meter which he can use at any time to gain armor for sweet dream when sub is in his face or he can use on ex spikes. The matchup is impossible for subzero. Cant' crouch freddys projectiles and they push you back. Slide doesn't go under, only wakeup slide might.

By Ice balls I mean ones you do in a combo, like 22 iceball. It just goes straight through.

 

[Konqrr]

As Robotic said, Sektor vs Freddy is 10-0, Robots don't need sleep... lol

But seriously, I can't wait until we start filling in Freddy's numbers. He has all the tools to be top.

 

[rpg]

As Robotic said, Sektor vs Freddy is 10-0, Robots don't need sleep... lol

But seriously, I can't wait until we start filling in Freddy's numbers. He has all the tools to be top.

I agree with this freddy will be on top. =]

 

[M2Dave]

Preliminary post-patch match up chart for Freddy Krueger:

6 vs Baraka
5 vs Cyber Sub-Zero
4 vs Cyrax
7 vs Ermac
6 vs Jade
6 vs Jax
6 vs Johnny Cage
5 vs Kabal
6 vs Kano
6 vs Kenshi
6 vs Kitana
4 vs Kung Lao
6 vs Liu Kang
5 vs Mileena
6 vs Nightwolf
5 vs Noob Saibot
6 vs Quan Chi
4 vs Raiden
5 vs Rain
4 vs Reptile
6 vs Scorpion
5 vs Sektor
6 vs Shang Tsung
6 vs Sheeva
5 vs Sindel
6 vs Skarlet
5 vs Smoke
6 vs Sonya Blade
6 vs Stryker
5 vs Sub-Zero

Freddy is currently S- tier, just below the top tier characters of the game.

 

[Zoidberg747]

I disagree with the Baraka being 6-4 in freddy's favor. EX blade charge will snuff out Freddy's zoning game, and up close Baraka's frame traps and resets will destroy Freddy.

Id say its more 6-4 in Baraka's favor

 

[M2Dave]

I disagree with the Baraka being 6-4 in freddy's favor. EX blade charge will snuff out Freddy's zoning game, and up close Baraka's frame traps and resets will destroy Freddy.

Id say its more 6-4 in Baraka's favor

Full screen armor attacks are useful but not very relevant against Freddy because his projectile traps are so tight that no armor attack can blow throw them.

Any character who has to approach Freddy the traditional way, which includes Baraka, does not beat Freddy.

 

[Karnage]

Full screen armor attacks are useful but not very relevant against Freddy because his projectile traps are so tight that no armor attack can blow throw them.

Any character who has to approach Freddy the traditional way, which includes Baraka, does not beat Freddy.

Yeah as i discovered a few days ago with nightwolf. There is no way to get through even with armoured shoulder.

 

[Zoidberg747]

I need to change that on my matchup chart- thanks

 

[M2Dave]

New Freddy match up chart with adjustments. Keep checking for brief comments for each character.

6 vs Baraka

5 vs Cyber Sub-Zero

5 vs Cyrax - despite the inconceivable amount of damage Cyrax can dish out in one combo, Freddy has the ability to zone him safely. You just have to be really careful of nets (b,b+3) at mid range to avoid trading. Do not waste any meter on anything besides combo breakers vs this character, and only break Cyrax's combos after the player wastes the meter for the EX bomb, or you will never ever win.

6 vs Ermac - Freddy punishes blocked TKP (b,f+1) anywhere on the screen with the appropriate spike. Ermac has to rush down, and he can do so because a lot of his strings work well on Freddy because of the large crouching hitbox. In all honesty, this match up is probably only 5.5 : 4.5 in favor of Freddy.

6 vs Jade

6 vs Jax - Even though CD Jr. beat me at Season's Beatings, I still think this match up is in favor of Freddy. This fight is very similar to Johnny Cage (see below). NMS crouches under Jax's d,f+2 and gives you a full combo punish via NMS, 1. If you get cornered, however, you may as well put your stick down. Every hit of f+4,1,3 jails Freddy and leads to death combos.

5 vs Johnny Cage - simple match up. If you manage to zone Cage, you win. If Cage corners you, you are dead. You need to learn to use NMS in footsies in this match up to be successful. Cage is more dangerous mid screen than Jax due to EX forceball trap.

5 vs Kabal - I have played REO, Erik Warda, and Master D, and this match up is harder than I thought. Freddy has no problems with iaGBs whatsoever because all spikes crouch under them. Freddy struggles vs Kabal's rush down, however. Bait EX dashes by doing glove tosses, Freddy fingers, medium spikes, and whiffing pokes (i.e., d+1).

6 vs Kano - all spikes crouch under knives while up ball is easily punishable by f+4,2,1. Kano has to rush down Freddy, but the problem is that his offense is not good enough for him to win consistently. Aerial balls are an issue, however, because of their whiff punishing abilities.

5 vs Kenshi

6 vs Kitana - I hope I get the chance to play the great Kitana players (i.e., Osu, Konqrr, MrMileena, etc.) some day. I do have to say, however, that if Kitana struggles with Kano's knives, she is in for a surprise when Freddy starts tossing glove tosses/Freddy fingers and spikes.

3.5 vs Kung Lao - Kung Lao is a difficult match up because of his air mobility, which makes him hard to zone, and teleport 3, which locks Freddy because of his large crouching hitbox. You cannot simply stand in one spot and zone like you normally would. The key is to keep moving. Kung Lao's teleport 3 can be punished with EX ground spikes if you dash forward, and NMS, 1 works well as an anti air versus dive kicks. You have to play this match up a lot to get used to zoning a character who is very difficult to zone.

6 vs Liu Kang

3 vs Mileena - I played REO's Mileena, and I got annihilated. Mileena is difficult to zone because of rolls (b,d+4) and tele kicks (f,f+3). Her instant aerial Sai is actually an underrated projectile. Furthermore, at mid range, you have to deal with the most annoying poke in the game (d+4) while up close her overhead (u+4) is supposedly +9 on block. I am uncertain what to do vs this bitch. I need to play more, but it does not look to me like Freddy is winning this match up any time soon.

6 vs Nightwolf - Reflect is a problem because the move disables glove toss/Freddy fingers, but turtling with NMS gives Nightwolf a tough, tough time. NMS crouches under shoulder and arrow, severely limiting Nightwolf. Spikes are neither reflectable nor absorbable.

6 vs Noob Saibot - sweet dreams catches teleslam attempts and trades with any shadow clone in your favor. Just wake up and perform two far ground spikes. Freddy has safer zoning, better mix ups, more damaging combos, and superior mobility, so Noob is outclassed in almost every category.

6 vs Quan Chi

4 vs Raiden - because of the teleport (d,u), Raiden is literally un-zonable and un-trappable. In other words, this is a difficult match up for Freddy. Raiden cannot teleport punish glove toss on reaction. Ground spikes, on the other hand, are punishable if he randomly teleports. EX ground spike does not track teleport, unfortunately. d+1, f+4,2,1, and JP are your best options in dealing with the teleport. JP is especially good because if it connects, it leads to combos, and if it gets blocked, it leads to un-fuzzy-guardable albeit unsafe 50/50 mix up between b+2 and b+3 xx close ground spike, but EX ground spike is safe. Do not zone too much. Instead, be more aggressive. This match up feels random sometimes mostly because you never know when the Raiden player will teleport. You have to take some risks to win this match up.

5 vs Rain

5 vs Reptile

6 vs Scorpion

5 vs Sektor

6 vs Shang Tsung - Shang Tsung has to rush down Freddy, and he has some solid frame traps with f+4,3,4 xx close up skull and d+4 xx up skull. Close up skull leaves him at +1 on block. He is helpless vs Freddy from a distance, though. Up skulls are too slow for glove toss and spikes. Do not get cornered and be aware of EX soul steal at mid range, and you should win.

6 vs Sheeva

5 vs Sindel

6 vs Skarlet - following the patch, Skarlet finds herself in a similar position as Kano. She is outmatched by Freddy's fireball game, yet her offensive game is not good enough to threaten Freddy. Dagger cancels have been slowed down and only do 2% of damage now. I used to use Skarley myself, and it is a shame what NRS has done to this character.

4 vs Smoke

6 vs Sonya Blade

6 vs Stryker

6 vs Sub-Zero

 

[Heroic_Legacy]

I think the Sub Zero matchup is far worse for Sub Zero than 6-4. He cannot zone at all and is completely shut down. He cannot slide under glove toss, forcing him to jump or EX Slide and burn meter to try and get in. And in every circumstance Freddy does more damage than Sub per hit. When Sub Zero is forced to rush down, he is already losing hard since his innate abilty to turtle and keep characters out is nullified. Normally this occurs when the opposing character gets a health lead, but just by having Hell Spikes and Glove Toss, it seems like Sub Zero is already losing at the start of the match. And the only thing that Sub Zero can successfully do is get in and tick throw like crazy or do random slides.

Sindel matchup deserves a 6-4. Sindel may zone you with aerial fireballs where you can't zone, but you have a teleport that subsequently goes through projectiles and offers a punish everytime she chucks a projectile at you from the air midscreen. And if you worry about it too much near the end of the round damage EX Green Goop trades with her air fireballs everytime for same damage.

Rain gets shit on. Freddy outzones him and punishes his teleport in startup with hell spikes and glove toss. If you read a teleport free b1 2 u1 punish on it. NMS really fucks up his roundhouse stagger pressure since you can weave under the kick at the right spacing. 6-4

 

[M2Dave]

I think the Sub Zero matchup is far worse for Sub Zero than 6-4. He cannot zone at all and is completely shut down. He cannot slide under glove toss, forcing him to jump or EX Slide and burn meter to try and get in. And in every circumstance Freddy does more damage than Sub per hit. When Sub Zero is forced to rush down, he is already losing hard since his innate abilty to turtle and keep characters out is nullified. Normally this occurs when the opposing character gets a health lead, but just by having Hell Spikes and Glove Toss, it seems like Sub Zero is already losing at the start of the match. And the only thing that Sub Zero can successfully do is get in and tick throw like crazy or do random slides.

Some match ups seem worse on paper than they actually are. Kabal vs. Jax and Freddy vs. Cage are good examples. Freddy vs. Sub Zero is another example. I am well aware that the community would rather complain than study a match up, but I assure everyone that once you learn how to approach and pressure Freddy, he will appear perfectly beatable. Freddy has no match ups that are better than 6:4 because he has the largest crouching hitbox in the game, no access to low pokes that lower his hitbox, and no fast armor moves to escape rush down.

Master D., who uses Sub Zero casually, goes 4.5 : 5.5 versus my Freddy. Master D. has nothing on Tom Brady's Sub Zero, but he knows how to fight Freddy because he has played me more than anybody else. I just want people to play a lot, preferably off-line, before they insist on 7:3 match ups.

 

[Heroic_Legacy]

I only play offline anyway with a competent scene with good players. (With Freddy)

It's just my personal opinion on the matchup having played it a bit.

 

[Crathen]

About Freddy vs Sektor

Freddy can't really zone Sektor who can jump to close the distance , in case Freddy uses Glove Toss from fullscreen Sektor can Iatu on reaction , this changes the way the freddy player has to play the matchup making him wait to punish a jump with the appropriate ground spike and that's when Sektor can start to dash block his way in , once he's at jump distance Freddy has to be careful with his zoning tools , blocked Gs means Sektor will get in with either f2 ( it can be blocked but at that point Sektor is in reach to b34 wich can be spaced to avoid pokes like d1 or d3 ) or dashing 12 , glove toss can be jumped into full combo.

Also , since Freddy has a really big crouching hitbox Sektors 12 string will always jail him until he releases block wich opens him to a b34 ( and the 4 has to be blocked even if crouch blocking.

Upmissiles setups also works wonders against Freddy , b2 into Behind upmissile isnt punishable even with EX spikes after an immediate techroll so Sektor can end his combos and immediately jumpin , if Freddy Ex spikes he Bum will hit and Sektor can Jik Tu or dash in 12b1 , same for nightmare stance on wakeup ( i don't even think it has invincibility frames and not like you will see a player doing that on wa ) the only thing that Freddy can do is Teleport away / towards and if baited Iatu will punish it.

I still have to consider EX Sweet dreams in all of this ( the armor frames could be usefull vs jumpins ) but atm i feel this is a 6-4 in favor of Sektor.

And i'm not theorycrafting all of this , i play offline with a friend of mine who started to use Freddy since he came out and knows all of his frametraps , careful zoning and AA if i don't space my jumpin.

 

[Heroic_Legacy]

Wakeup NMS does have the same invincibility window as any wakeup move. NMS itself moves him backwards quite a bit and lowers his hitbox which might make up missiles whiff. IATU is a strong tool against glove toss but against Hell Spikes you can't use it because you'll get stuffed in startup. Freddy does quite a bit better rushing Sektor down in this matchup rather than zoning him anyway. Freddy has an insane reset game which can turn any 35% into a 70% off of a mixup you can't fuzzy (Both b3 and b2 are 13 frames so no fuzzy guarding for you!)

Sektor's lack of wakeup options hurt him worse than Freddy's inability to zone Sektor from fullscreen without fear of IATU. I personally don't think either of them take a distinct advantage and it's an even matchup.

EX Sweet Dreams is pretty ass. It has like the least amount of armor frames in the game and the projectile itself almost never hits.

 

[Crathen]

While freddy has a real 50/50 ( and both b2 / b3 are 17 frames ) his problem is getting in , Sektor has a great standing 1 ( 6 frames and with good vertical range ) to anti air , plus freddy hasn't got great upclose strings for pressure ( but i'm willing to hear you opinion ) and Sektors keepaway game can handle Freddy.

And Behind upmissile after a b2 ( as a combo ender of course ) will hit a wakeup NMS for a hitconfirmable Tu , try it yourself.

 

[Heroic_Legacy]

Freddy can NMS > Dream Shift and the missile misses. But it's punishable by IATU. So on wakeup he's forced to block a string and eat chip damage from an upmissile. Extra 6% damage on chip after a combo for what I'd assume to be around 42%.

As for Freddy's up close game all his strings can be made 'safe' just by canceling to NMS for a free getaway/overhead/low/high crush launcher. And if he thinks you will poke out he can just NMS > Hell Spike and punish your poke with a 12~35% combo leading you further into the corner.

Sektor trying to keep freddy out I just don't see working unless you have a health lead.

If Freddy gets in, the way I play him is to keep you standing and ending my combos with EX Hell Spike jip b2 for frame advantage then going into a 50/50. Sektor having no armor moves is basically forced into blocking right and guessing. And if you break then you lose meter for 40% combos. If I DO knock you down due to lack of meter I can do a really early Sweet Dreams and stop wakeup flame and sometimes wakeup teleupper. Usually depends on if you can get a perfect wakeup attack or not.

It's a risky and fun matchup but I still do not see either side having the advantage. Both characters are primarily zoning characters with decent up close games and oki mixups.

 

[M2Dave]

I really enjoy reading all of your posts, guys. Keep the information coming. Freddy is too good of a character for this subforum to be dead.

If anyone could share some advice on Mileena, that would be helpful. What is the best combo punish for blocked telekick, EX telekick, and ball? How do we approach this match up?

 

[Heroic_Legacy]

I haven't played a Mileena with Freddy yet but blocking a telekick (and EX) while ducking, everyone could do a raw d1 and get her into juggle state then so Freddy can do close spike or dash f421 if you have enough time/space to do it after d1. From there just Freddy basic combo. Blocked ball I don't really know. I mean, close spike will hit but it seems like you'd get something more significant than just a spike to hit her. I personally wouldn't leave Mileena too far away though. I'd rather stay closer so she can't guess a hellspike or glove and telekick me from fullscreen. I'm sure staying out of d4 range and punishing it on whiff with raw spike is feasible. The dreaded u4 is just annoying to deal with but it's so slow so you'll never get hit by it.

 

[Crathen]

Blocked Roll: njp b2 into whatever best combo you got ( the njp must be performed low on the ground so you have to neutral jump immediately or you can just b2 )

Blocked Ex Telekick: d1 Ex Spike is your only option to punish it , close or medium spike will not hit her , you guys should test if this works if Mil follows up with sai , i can't atm

Blocked Neckbite: f421

Still have to hear my sparring partner about this matchup , we'll work on it.

 

[M2Dave]

Blocked Ex Telekick: d1 Ex Spike is your only option to punish it , close or medium spike will not hit her , you guys should test if this works if Mil follows up with sai , i can't atm.

d+1 xx EX spikes does not seem to work. The spikes keep whiffing. Close ground spike works unless the Mileena player uses a late aerial sai blast to stall in the air. I'm afraid this is just a bad match up. I've started using Mileena myself recently, and she's a very effective character. Probably better than Freddy overall.

By the way, I've edited Konqrr's post with the latest match up numbers now that I'm a moderator of this forum.

From my experience, Freddy's most difficult match ups are vs Mileena (3:7), Kung Lao (3.5:6.5), Smoke, and Raiden (both 4:6). The rest is even or in Freddy's favor. I'm not yet 100% confident to give an accurate opinion on Sektor, so I appreciate you guys' knowledge on the match up.

 

[Crathen]

d+1 xx EX spikes does not seem to work. The spikes keep whiffing. Close ground spike works unless the Mileena player uses a late aerial sai blast to stall in the air. I'm afraid this is just a bad match up. I've started using Mileena myself recently, and she's a very effective character. Probably better than Freddy overall.

By the way, I've edited Konqrr's post with the latest match up numbers now that I'm a moderator of this forum.

From my experience, Freddy's most difficult match ups are vs Mileena (3:7), Kung Lao (3.5:6.5), Smoke, and Raiden (both 4:6). The rest is even or in Freddy's favor. I'm not yet 100% confident to give an accurate opinion on Sektor, so I appreciate you guys' knowledge on the match up.

So after some testing i can agree with Sektor-Freddy being a 5-5 , the zoning war goes like glovetoss&fingers < Iatu < spikes but to negate the Iatu freddy needs to watch for a jump and once he respects that Sektor can approach freddy or shoot some missiles to keep him in check , so Sektor can't win from fullscreen and he will have to approach dash blocking , Freddy has a good backwalk so he can run away and play footies with his NMS ( wich avoids f2 , 12 and if not point blank it will avoid b34 and b1 too ) but it can be punished with iatu , once sektor is in freddy has a really hard time shaking him off for his large crouching hitbox the 12 pressure works wonders b34 is always a threat , if freddy gets on Sektor his best bet is going for the NMS 50/50 and then get away or if he needs a comeback he'll use the 50/50 b2/b3 but he'll hardly get on him since his keepaway game has better range than Freddys strings.

EDIT: mmmm i've rechecked and seems i can d1 dash d1 EX spike or d1 dash d1 medium spike , you want to try that and see how it works for you , or well... stick to uppercut

 

[M2Dave]

So after some testing i can agree with Sektor-Freddy being a 5-5 , the zoning war goes like glovetoss&fingers < Iatu < spikes but to negate the Iatu freddy needs to watch for a jump and once he respects that Sektor can approach freddy or shoot some missiles to keep him in check , so Sektor can't win from fullscreen and he will have to approach dash blocking , Freddy has a good backwalk so he can run away and play footies with his NMS ( wich avoids f2 , 12 and if not point blank it will avoid b34 and b1 too ) but it can be punished with iatu , once sektor is in freddy has a really hard time shaking him off for his large crouching hitbox the 12 pressure works wonders b34 is always a threat , if freddy gets on Sektor his best bet is going for the NMS 50/50 and then get away or if he needs a comeback he'll use the 50/50 b2/b3 but he'll hardly get on him since his keepaway game has better range than Freddys strings.

EDIT: mmmm i've rechecked and seems i can d1 dash d1 EX spike or d1 dash d1 medium spike , you want to try that and see how it works for you , or well... stick to uppercut

I'll add your input on Sektor to the first post soon and give you credit. Guys, please do contribute. This is not an m2dave project. Everyone is welcome to give feedback.

I'll test the Mileena related stuff again. Freddy needs to punish f,f+3 correctly, man. Uppercut will not do the job. I think 1 into f+4,2,1 may work the best.

Edit: By the way, Freddy can spike under Sektor's straight rocket, so that projectile is never an issue in the match.