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Match-up Discussion Flash Matchup Discussion

I think she is up 5.5-4.5 for me. Catwoman can lock us out of any dangerous spots pretty easily. Also she has very good non meter damage compared to us. Her high low is about = close up, but midrange I think her whip and jump whip give her a little more power to dictate the pace of the match. Also her b3 and f3 are much better. Flash does has interact removal though so if you pick watch tower it would favor Flash. More tech powered stages though, and you will eat 80-100% with regularity against a good Catwoman. Up close though we probably get more safe chip out.
 

Kiko

Face it, you're done.
Honestly if you stick to D1D2 this matchup isn't so bad.

You can interrupt some strings with it and even full combo if you're practiced to LK on reaction.

There's no reason for flash to be in the air besides to RMS-2.

What is scary is that cat dash -_- I'm still figuring out what exactly can punish that. Can't really speed dodge on reaction besides full screen.
 

Hellion_96

xX_Hellion96_Xx
Honestly if you stick to D1D2 this matchup isn't so bad.

You can interrupt some strings with it and even full combo if you're practiced to LK on reaction.

There's no reason for flash to be in the air besides to RMS-2.

What is scary is that cat dash -_- I'm still figuring out what exactly can punish that. Can't really speed dodge on reaction besides full screen.
I think it might be in flash's favor slightly. One mistake and catwomen eats 61% she has no projectile and no safe way in.
 

Hiltzy85

I'm THAT fast
Lets talk match ups. Cat woman vs. Flash?

Do you guys think she's more dangerous than we are up close?

Her mixup game is crazy, but it's easy to find holes. How do you guys approach this match up?

I find my best starter is just D1D2. It's fast and low and takes care of her close up game.


One misread could lead to some pretty nasty pressure by her though.


Anyone got a number they want to peg?

My personal opinion makes me think it's 5-5 on whoever makes the mistake.
even just at a cursory look-over of the match up, I don't see how it really favours either character, since they more or less do the same things, and do them just about as well as one another. I agree that this is pretty much 5-5. Both characters are about getting knock downs and doing 50/50s. The only advantage I think catwoman has is that she can put bombs on interactables and flash can't, although I guess Flash might be able to speed dodge the bombs. Obviously Flash's damage is a lot higher if he has trait.
 

Kiko

Face it, you're done.
even just at a cursory look-over of the match up, I don't see how it really favours either character, since they more or less do the same things, and do them just about as well as one another. I agree that this is pretty much 5-5. Both characters are about getting knock downs and doing 50/50s. The only advantage I think catwoman has is that she can put bombs on interactables and flash can't, although I guess Flash might be able to speed dodge the bombs. Obviously Flash's damage is a lot higher if he has trait.

She's has better control of the air and can "somewhat" zone flash (make him respect the whip). Her pressure is a bit nastier than his and cat woman has that tiny crouch stance that makes some attacks whiff at a certain range.
 

Hiltzy85

I'm THAT fast
She's has better control of the air and can "somewhat" zone flash (make him respect the whip). Her pressure is a bit nastier than his and cat woman has that tiny crouch stance that makes some attacks whiff at a certain range.
in what way do you think her pressure is better? I'm not saying that it isn't, I just don't see how it is. Are her b1 and f1 strings plus on block? Her low starter has better range, but it's also slower, and i'm pretty sure that the overhead starter is slower/the same as flash f2 but has less range. I haven't looked at her frame data very much, but I don't think that a lot of her other normals are really all that good.

I agree that she's better in the air, but the only things that are going to whiff against her are b22 at the absolute maximum range. For what it's worth, i don't think it's such a big deal for Flash to walk forward like 1 step farther, especially since she has to be sitting still to be small enough.
 

Kiko

Face it, you're done.
Personally found that b22 can whiff at odd ranges which is why I don't use it to open against CW, I stick to strictly using it for whiff punishing.

Which leaves you with f2 and d1d2 as starters.


I still stick to 5-5 anyone's game.





How does everyone feel about the match ups against



-Batman
-GL
-Black Adam
-Harley
-Shazam
-Superman
-Killer Frost


?


BA, GL, and Supes I find can give flash trouble because I feel like, in general, their tools always beat ours out.

I honestly don't know how to peg the shaZam matchup just yet.
 

Kiko

Face it, you're done.
Superman is giving me tons of trouble. With good spacing a superman will always be able to check almost all of your options.

What to do? :/
 

Hellion_96

xX_Hellion96_Xx
Superman is giving me tons of trouble. With good spacing a superman will always be able to check almost all of your options.

What to do? :/
Superman shuts flash down hard you have to make reads to get out of his pressure and score knockdowns to start your own
 
Recommend just sticking to standing resets unless you are doing a trait combo on supes. I get a lotta superman practice though, it really relies on whos neutral game is stronger. You can react his zoning and punish. Also, picking a stage like clock tower or airstation gives you more anti zone options.
 
Raven so far seems like a tug of war match. With demon stance she is gonna take your life away, but outside of it you pretty much can wreck her. I hadn't played her since D2 buffs, but I would assume they gave her a good d2 since she sorely needs it. Even then Flashes new dash should be able to run all over Raven.

Grundy is a tough match, luckily it is more dependent on the Grundy's skill and knowledge than ours. We can pretty much do same tactics, also he is a lot easier to frame trap in general. His natural attribute is armor moves which we can blow through most. His super is quite annoying though (any tips here welcome).
 

Hellion_96

xX_Hellion96_Xx
Raven so far seems like a tug of war match. With demon stance she is gonna take your life away, but outside of it you pretty much can wreck her. I hadn't played her since D2 buffs, but I would assume they gave her a good d2 since she sorely needs it. Even then Flashes new dash should be able to run all over Raven.

Grundy is a tough match, luckily it is more dependent on the Grundy's skill and knowledge than ours. We can pretty much do same tactics, also he is a lot easier to frame trap in general. His natural attribute is armor moves which we can blow through most. His super is quite annoying though (any tips here welcome).
If the grundy player activates super at least from the starting distance you can activate trait and he'll be stuck in slowmo never being able to catch you lol
 

Hiltzy85

I'm THAT fast
In a lot of ways, I feel like Raven is pretty similar to Flash, insofar as she really needs meter to get damage. I would say that it's probably best to try and stay on the ground as much as possible, to give yourself a chance to block her lifts and squeezes.

Before the dash buff, if you blocked one of her grabs from anywhere other than pretty much full screen, you could lightning charge or MB lightning charge to punish. Now, with the dash buff, you can pretty much dash right up to her and be in her face. I'm pretty sure that Flash eats her alive up close, and all of her wake ups and reversals are unsafe. I believe that some of her strings that leave her positive have pretty big gaps in them, too, so her pressure isn't really much to be scared of.

If you crouch one of her projectiles, I would suggest dashing forward and then blocking, to see what she does. If she shoots again, you're going to get right next to her, and if she does basically anything else, you're going to be able to punish it.

I think this match is pretty close, but it may be in Flash's favour now that he moves so fast. If you play your hand right, she isn't going to get a lot of chances to hurt you aside from sniping you with squeeze if you get twitchy. Flash's new and improved turbo d2 should be good for dealing with her weird cross up set ups, too, since even if you don't hit her out of her j3, you might be able to shrink yourself with the d2 animation enough for it to whiff on you. Be wary of wake up lifts into big combos, and don't get fooled by weird teleport stuff when she's got her trait on.

Maybe 6-4 flash?
 

Hellion_96

xX_Hellion96_Xx
In a lot of ways, I feel like Raven is pretty similar to Flash, insofar as she really needs meter to get damage. I would say that it's probably best to try and stay on the ground as much as possible, to give yourself a chance to block her lifts and squeezes.

Before the dash buff, if you blocked one of her grabs from anywhere other than pretty much full screen, you could lightning charge or MB lightning charge to punish. Now, with the dash buff, you can pretty much dash right up to her and be in her face. I'm pretty sure that Flash eats her alive up close, and all of her wake ups and reversals are unsafe. I believe that some of her strings that leave her positive have pretty big gaps in them, too, so her pressure isn't really much to be scared of.

If you crouch one of her projectiles, I would suggest dashing forward and then blocking, to see what she does. If she shoots again, you're going to get right next to her, and if she does basically anything else, you're going to be able to punish it.

I think this match is pretty close, but it may be in Flash's favour now that he moves so fast. If you play your hand right, she isn't going to get a lot of chances to hurt you aside from sniping you with squeeze if you get twitchy. Flash's new and improved turbo d2 should be good for dealing with her weird cross up set ups, too, since even if you don't hit her out of her j3, you might be able to shrink yourself with the d2 animation enough for it to whiff on you. Be wary of wake up lifts into big combos, and don't get fooled by weird teleport stuff when she's got her trait on.

Maybe 6-4 flash?
idk man I played a good one last night and was having trouble getting close maybe it was just online
 

Hiltzy85

I'm THAT fast
idk man I played a good one last night and was having trouble getting close maybe it was just online
I mean, obviously being online doesn't help. I don't mean t0 say that it's easy to get in on her. If Raven does her job right, shes going to keep you far away, but, for instance, if you were to just crouch block at full screen, she can't really do anything to you. Her projectile goes over you, and if she tries to squeeze you, you take some chip and get to move in for free or punish it directly, depending on the distance.

I feel like until you actually get in on her and get the pressure on, you kind of need to try and turtle her. If she gets frustrated and tries to come to you, shes got a low starter (like b12 or something) that you've got covered, and I think her only raw overhead is f3. She shouldn't be able to jump in on Flash's d2. If she uses trait and shoots shit out of the ground, I'm pretty sure that it's bad on block and she actually has to choose the distance it comes out at, so it can whiff, too, and you get to move in.
 

Kiko

Face it, you're done.
Anyone have any idea what the green lantern match up is supposed to look like now? Lantern's might (the lift) and his minigun are perfect zoning tools.


Not sure how to approach this when SP gets full combo punished.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
Anyone have any idea what the green lantern match up is supposed to look like now? Lantern's might (the lift) and his minigun are perfect zoning tools.


Not sure how to approach this when SP gets full combo punished.
sonic pound is punished because youre predictable with it, it will never be lifted on reaction.

get within jump distance or a lil further, oa rocket whiffs can be ex lced, dash under air oa rockets

after minigun, gl has to respect that flash can ex lc, this hesitation gives you a free dash on a read
 

Hiltzy85

I'm THAT fast
Would you say Wonder Woman is an easier MU than Killer Frost, and why/ why not?
I'm inclined to say that they are both pretty bad match ups. Sure, Wonder Woman doesn't have safe slide, but basically everything else she does is better, and her corner damage is retarded. I think her air dash cross up stuff is better than KFs, but her zoning is obviously weaker.

Wonder Woman doesn't really need to use meter, either, so she is more than likely always going to beat Flash in clashes. I think KFs resets and 50/50 are better than WWs 50/50, but WWs low string is plus on block, and b1/b11 is basically Flash b2/b22 on steroids. WW also has that b2 in lasso stance...

All I can say is that I think they're both losing matches for Flash. I don't know which is worse, but I wouldn't want to have to play either. I'm pretty sure that WW is overall a better character than KF, though, in a bubble.
 

Zyphox

What is going on guys, Ya Boi Zyphox here.
an online training session prior to evo 2013 to grind out the MU, so take this with the utmost grainiest of salt, and its online guys i mean

c'mon now. i uploaded it after evo

so that flash players and sinestro players can learn how to use character in the MU. i would like to get more games in with AK Pig Of The Hut

in the future and actually do a
commentary on the MU, i posted this for the benefit of the community and hope that pig would post matches

of his sessions as well, lets stop
the bitching on this site and do
more to improve the game by showing "high"

(online) level play and dissecting the MU to help each other out.


@ak pig of the hut
SaJa
Xenrail
LEGEND
Hellion_96
AYSAMO
Awesomo
CrimsonShadow i got the idea to upload this from your thread to discuss MU's
WoundCowboy i didn't get to record our matches but would love to play you again to record them :)
colt during the second match the interactable glitches out, did you know about that stuff?

 

cR WoundCowboy

WoundCowbae <3
an online training session prior to evo 2013 to grind out the MU, so take this with the utmost grainiest of salt, and its online guys i mean

c'mon now. i uploaded it after evo

so that flash players and sinestro players can learn how to use character in the MU. i would like to get more games in with AK Pig Of The Hut

in the future and actually do a
commentary on the MU, i posted this for the benefit of the community and hope that pig would post matches

of his sessions as well, lets stop
the bitching on this site and do
more to improve the game by showing "high"

(online) level play and dissecting the MU to help each other out.


@ak pig of the hut
SaJa
Xenrail
LEGEND
Hellion_96
AYSAMO
Awesomo
CrimsonShadow i got the idea to upload this from your thread to discuss MU's
WoundCowboy i didn't get to record our matches but would love to play you again to record them :)
colt during the second match the interactable glitches out, did you know about that stuff?
Until I see/play some more, I will NEVER believe that this is in the Flash's favor.
 

Pig Of The Hut

Day 0 Phenomenal Dr. Fate and Darkseid player
an online training session prior to evo 2013 to grind out the MU, so take this with the utmost grainiest of salt, and its online guys i mean

c'mon now. i uploaded it after evo

so that flash players and sinestro players can learn how to use character in the MU. i would like to get more games in with AK Pig Of The Hut

in the future and actually do a
commentary on the MU, i posted this for the benefit of the community and hope that pig would post matches

of his sessions as well, lets stop
the bitching on this site and do
more to improve the game by showing "high"

(online) level play and dissecting the MU to help each other out.


@ak pig of the hut
SaJa
Xenrail
LEGEND
Hellion_96
AYSAMO
Awesomo
CrimsonShadow i got the idea to upload this from your thread to discuss MU's
WoundCowboy i didn't get to record our matches but would love to play you again to record them :)
colt during the second match the interactable glitches out, did you know about that stuff?

Post the GL and DS ones also