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First Impressions MU Chart

Not sure I get some of these but I appreciate the thought and effort. Erron Black seems free but it could be a skill level thing. Same with Kotal I think Sonya isn't favored, maybe is disadvantageous.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
Didn't your last tier list thread get shut down? And I know this says "First impression match up chart" but come on lol
I think Chernyy is a fool as most people do, but he should be permitted to post and discuss whatever he wishes as long as he complies with the website's regulations. Who are the moderators to dictate who and when a user is allowed to create a tier list thread? Most content creators are already discussing tier lists on their YouTube channels, which are allowed to be discussed (i.e. REO, Sajam) on TYM, yet everybody on TYM is banned from creating tier list threads. Inconsistent and silly. @STORMS should evaluate this rule.
 

Invincibeast

Stay Free
I was more commenting on the rewording of the title to post the same thing that was shut down lol

But yes I do agree that for a forum, as long as posts are within the regulations, they should be allowed.
 

x TeeJay o

Canary Cry Gapless Pressure
Moderator
I think Chernyy is a fool as most people do, but he should be permitted to post and discuss whatever he wishes as long as he complies with the website's regulations. Who are the moderators to dictate who and when a user is allowed to create a tier list thread? Most content creators are already discussing tier lists on their YouTube channels, which are allowed to be discussed (i.e. REO, Sajam) on TYM, yet everybody on TYM is banned from creating tier list threads. Inconsistent and silly. @STORMS should evaluate this rule.
Except this specific post is WHAT PEOPLE BITCH ABOUT TYM FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE. How do you not see this as a issue? I’m willing to bet there is 100% chance he hasn’t played all 25 characters at the highest level or against. It’s literally impossible. Half of these tier lists and mu shit is theory crafting and people looking at tools/ what gives them a hard time in games. Not the actual fucking matchup I don’t even know the matchup to Skarlet,Jade,Baraka,Scorpion and they’ve been playable for months. There is still new shit to learn. Stuff to lab. We don’t know everything yet. Look at Jacqui. Just a week ago she was ass, now all of a sudden she’s S tier? Do you see my point. This thread is dumb. And should be closed period. These types of threads become toxic WAY too fast because people can’t agree on literally anything because it’s just way too damn early. We are not Youtube. We are not Twitter. Nor reddit. I personally don’t care what other people post on other sites. Not my business to care. But for the integrity of this one, and my sanity(and other mods) TIER LISTS, not matchup discussions, should not be posted AT LEAST until after combo breaker.
 
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Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Didn't your last tier list thread get shut down? And I know this says "First impression match up chart" but come on lol
I mean it's not the same list at all and has the matchup numbers listed specifically for Scorpion. The mods even said the tier lists are based on MUs and those should be discussed first, so that is what he is doing.

I also agree with @M2Dave that this rule is stupid. The site is already pretty dead as is, tier list discussions can be a mess but its fun to speculate and argue about characters. I'd much rather have tier list threads than buff or nerf threads (although I think those should be allowed to).

Except this specific post is WHAT PEOPLE BITCH ABOUT TYM FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE. How do you not see this as a issue? I’m willing to bet there is 100% chance he hasn’t played all 25 characters at the highest level or against. It’s literally impossible. Half of these tier lists and mu shit is theory crafting and people looking at tools/ what gives them a hard time in games. Not the actual fucking matchup I don’t even know the matchup to Skarlet,Jade,Baraka,Scorpion and they’ve been playable for months. There is still new shit to learn. Stuff to lab. We don’t know everything yet. Look at Jacqui. Just a week ago she was ass, now all of a sudden she’s S tier? Do you see my point. This thread is dumb. And should be closed period. These types of threads become toxic WAY too fast because people can’t agree on literally anything because it’s just way too damn early. We are not Yourube. We are not Twitter. Nor reddit. I personally don’t care what other people post on other sites. Not my business to care. But for the integrity of this one, and my sanity(and other mods) TIER LISTS, not matchup discussions, should not be posted AT LEAST until after combo breaker.
People bitch about TYM because random posters like to argue (raises hand) and theory craft and pro players don't automatically get praised or trusted about everything they post. Has nothing to do with tier list threads. There is a ton of really stupid stuff on the front page rn like buff or nerf threads which are just as knee jerk reactionary but what you guys aren't getting is that discussing this stuff is fun for a lot of people. There is barely any discussion on the site anymore due to discord and twitter so killing discussion on something like tier lists doesn't make sense.

A good middle ground would have been to just merge Chernnys list with the REO tier list thread and make it like a tier list megathread so there is a place to discuss without ten people posting separate tier lists (which I agree is annoying).
 
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Except this specific post is WHAT PEOPLE BITCH ABOUT TYM FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE. How do you not see this as a issue? I’m willing to bet there is 100% chance he hasn’t played all 25 characters at the highest level or against. It’s literally impossible. Half of these tier lists and mu shit is theory crafting and people looking at tools/ what gives them a hard time in games. Not the actual fucking matchup I don’t even know the matchup to Skarlet,Jade,Baraka,Scorpion and they’ve been playable for months. There is still new shit to learn. Stuff to lab. We don’t know everything yet. Look at Jacqui. Just a week ago she was ass, now all of a sudden she’s S tier? Do you see my point. This thread is dumb. And should be closed period. These types of threads become toxic WAY too fast because people can’t agree on literally anything because it’s just way too damn early. We are not Yourube. We are not Twitter. Nor reddit. I personally don’t care what other people post on other sites. Not my business to care. But for the integrity of this one, and my sanity(and other mods) TIER LISTS, not matchup discussions, should not be posted AT LEAST until after combo breaker.
Who cares if tier lists are 100% accurate right now. They're fun to make and talking about them and the characters involved at different spots and why people think they're in certain spots can really promote some good conversation. A whole bunch of threads on this site aren't 100% accurate.
 

STORMS

Owner / Director
Administrator
I think Chernyy is a fool as most people do, but he should be permitted to post and discuss whatever he wishes as long as he complies with the website's regulations. Who are the moderators to dictate who and when a user is allowed to create a tier list thread? Most content creators are already discussing tier lists on their YouTube channels, which are allowed to be discussed (i.e. REO, Sajam) on TYM, yet everybody on TYM is banned from creating tier list threads. Inconsistent and silly. @STORMS should evaluate this rule.
I believe we were just deterring day 1 tier lists at first. Absolutely no bans should come from that...

By all means, tier lists are definitely something to discuss at this point.

Even if tier lists threads got excess, there are ways around it... either keeping all of the discussion in on thread or creating a forum for that particular discussion.

We are a forum... discussion and community is our purpose.

@Eldriken
 

GLoRToR

If you are not having fun doing something, stop it
I believe we were just deterring day 1 tier lists at first. Absolutely no bans should come from that...

By all means, tier lists are definitely something to discuss at this point.

Even if tier lists threads got excess, there are ways around it... either keeping all of the discussion in on thread or creating a forum for that particular discussion.

We are a forum... discussion and community is our purpose.

@Eldriken
I'm never in support of censorship, unless it's an attitude check and we're weeding out certain behaviours.

To be fair the game has been out for a few weeks now, and every top player has a basic idea of character strength by now.
Upsets will happen if tech is found and patches should address that S-Tier sooner than later, but I think it's the wiser call not to have taboos on a forum about an M-Rated game.

I don't even understand why soapbar exists, personally. We can swear all we like otherwise.
 
Match up discussion is good to have.
It is not a tier list lol.

However instead of exact numbers I would discuss it in details - why is a certain match up favored or not.

I am okay to do it in the general topic as well as I did regarding Shao Kahn. But we can create a dedicated sticky thread for it as well (not this :) ).

I would like to see match up numbers from high level players though.
In low level Scorpion 8-2 to everyone due to teleport lol.
 

x TeeJay o

Canary Cry Gapless Pressure
Moderator
Who cares if tier lists are 100% accurate right now. They're fun to make and talking about them and the characters involved at different spots and why people think they're in certain spots can really promote some good conversation. A whole bunch of threads on this site aren't 100% accurate.
You have no idea what you’re talking about. Tier list is 100% NOT ACCURATE because NOBODY has the matchup experience to say so. But alright have it you’re way I’m personally going to stay clear of these threads. I’m not dealing with the nonsense that comes with it so I defer it all to the other mods.


EDIT: my apologies I thought you said the list was accurate. Either way it isn’t fun making list that are irrelevant. You know wats fun? Playing the game and learning stuff without trying to figure out who’s where and what’s what. Just play the damn game and the tiers will fall into place.
 
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x TeeJay o

Canary Cry Gapless Pressure
Moderator
Last post I’ll make here. I’m not mad at cherny , reo,king, Bobby from down the street etc. I just think tier lists are dumb af this early and people should keep that same energy for everyone when it comes to tier lists. Before this game came out everyone was like “please god no week 1 or week 3 tier lists please” now all of a sudden reo makes one and everyone wants to have the green light. Stupid as hell lol
 

Eldriken

I smolder with generic rage.
Forum General
I believe we were just deterring day 1 tier lists at first. Absolutely no bans should come from that...

By all means, tier lists are definitely something to discuss at this point.

Even if tier lists threads got excess, there are ways around it... either keeping all of the discussion in on thread or creating a forum for that particular discussion.

We are a forum... discussion and community is our purpose.

@Eldriken
So you're saying that tier list threads are a go? If so, fine. But if that's the case, every mod here needs to be ready to weather the inevitable shit storm and garbage that's gonna be getting spewed all over the place because people are incapable of discussing things in a civil manner.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
I’m willing to bet there is 100% chance he hasn’t played all 25 characters at the highest level or against. It’s literally impossible. Half of these tier lists and mu shit is theory crafting and people looking at tools/ what gives them a hard time in games.
I highly doubt any person on TYM will ever play with or against all 25 characters at the highest possible level.

Half of tier lists and match ups is theory. You then put the theory to the test by playing the game and leveling up. The process is similar to conducting a scientific experimenting.

So you're saying that tier list threads are a go? If so, fine. But if that's the case, every mod here needs to be ready to weather the inevitable shit storm and garbage that's gonna be getting spewed all over the place because people are incapable of discussing things in a civil manner.
If people are not permitted to discuss tier lists on TYM, they will discuss them somewhere else (i.e., Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, etc.). I would like to think the moderators are more than capable of doing their jobs if arguments become hostile.
 

colby4898

Special Forces Sonya Up-player
Except this specific post is WHAT PEOPLE BITCH ABOUT TYM FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE. How do you not see this as a issue? I’m willing to bet there is 100% chance he hasn’t played all 25 characters at the highest level or against. It’s literally impossible. Half of these tier lists and mu shit is theory crafting and people looking at tools/ what gives them a hard time in games. Not the actual fucking matchup I don’t even know the matchup to Skarlet,Jade,Baraka,Scorpion and they’ve been playable for months. There is still new shit to learn. Stuff to lab. We don’t know everything yet. Look at Jacqui. Just a week ago she was ass, now all of a sudden she’s S tier? Do you see my point. This thread is dumb. And should be closed period. These types of threads become toxic WAY too fast because people can’t agree on literally anything because it’s just way too damn early. We are not Youtube. We are not Twitter. Nor reddit. I personally don’t care what other people post on other sites. Not my business to care. But for the integrity of this one, and my sanity(and other mods) TIER LISTS, not matchup discussions, should not be posted AT LEAST until after combo breaker.
Then you don’t read it
 

Eldriken

I smolder with generic rage.
Forum General
I highly doubt any person on TYM will ever play with or against all 25 characters at the highest possible level.

Half of tier lists and match ups is theory. You then put the theory to the test by playing the game and leveling up. The process is similar to conducting a scientific experimenting.



If people are not permitted to discuss tier lists on TYM, they will discuss them somewhere else (i.e., Facebook, Reddit, Twitter, etc.). I would like to think the moderators are more than capable of doing their jobs if arguments become hostile.
It wasn't something that would be forbidden forever. It just wasn't gonna be allowed until determined otherwise, which happens to be today.

I'm not against the discussion of it at all, just what the discussions are inevitably going to contain.
 

OutworldKeith

Premium
Premium Supporter
View attachment 14595

I'm tempted to move Liu Kang into 4-6. MU just feels rough in every respect.
Your list seems very unsure. I don’t think he has that many 5-5 MUs.

From my XP, Cassie, Raiden, Sub-Zero, Baraka, Jade are all winning MUs.

Jacqui is not a 7-3 either.

Lao and Johnny aren’t hard MUs for Scorp either.

Everyone else I don’t have enough games against.

EDIT: this is a bit broad because we have variations lol
 
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x TeeJay o

Canary Cry Gapless Pressure
Moderator
I highly doubt any person on TYM will ever play with or against all 25 characters at the highest possible level.

Half of tier lists and match ups is theory. You then put the theory to the test by playing the game and leveling up. The process is similar to conducting a scientific experimenting.
Dave ok that is all correct, except THIS IS WEEK 4 OR 5. not month 6 or even month 4... tier list this early is stupid. djt is right
Then you don’t read it
already ahead of you. i said that i wont. period.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
Dave ok that is all correct, except THIS IS WEEK 4 OR 5. not month 6 or even month 4... tier list this early is stupid. djt is right.
I honestly could not care less about the tier lists as much as I care about the discussion and rationale. People can read both sides of the argument, including the stupid ones, and make up their own minds based on their personal experiences and observations. This process is called learning.