First Glimpse of MK1 wavedashing

[Kiss the Missile]

Youre clearly misunderstood. I said nothing about Kameos being in the game being a problem, but rather that it looks almost impossible to catch opponents in juggles. I didnt even mention Kameos in my initial post. Combos with and without Kamoes can AND should co-exist. Youre stating the obvious as a refute when I never argued against for whatever reason.

That doesn't seem to be an issue tbh. If you watch the gameplay trailer both Sub and Scorpion do pretty extended combos without their Kameos thanks to air combos and EX moves. So I think Kameos are going to compliment the combo system, but not be the very core of it.

And NRS knows this because characters do have unique solo combo capabilities. Sub is the only one (from the demo) who can dunk his opponent out of an air combo and relaunch them. Kenshi's Stand is a whole system in itself, entirely disabling his Kameo when he uses it too

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Youre clearly misunderstood. I said nothing about Kameos being in the game being a problem, but rather that it looks almost impossible to catch opponents in juggles. I didnt even mention Kameos in my initial post. Combos with and without Kamoes can AND should co-exist. Youre stating the obvious as a refute when I never argued against for whatever reason.

Fair enough, I seem to have misunderstood. It wasn't my intention to refute anything, though, I just pointed out a few aspects. And anyways, as I said earlier, we've already seen combos with juggles (sometimes with multiple relaunches) that use no kameos. That said, again, the dash speed is quite likely going to be sped up by the game's release, as was the case with MK11 (which was sped up at launch and then even further in one of the first patches).

Also - and this is not necessarily related to the topic - I'd wager some cameos are not as much for combo extensions (like sonya), but instead for some form of spacing/zoning (kano) or setups (jax ground pound).

 

[GXX XX BXXXK]

That doesn't seem to be an issue tbh. If you watch the gameplay trailer both Sub and Scorpion do pretty extended combos without their Kameos thanks to air combos and EX moves. So I think Kameos are going to compliment the combo system, but not be the very core of it.

And NRS knows this because characters do have unique solo combo capabilities. Sub is the only one (from the demo) who can dunk his opponent out of an air combo and relaunch them. Kenshi's Stand is a whole system in itself, entirely disabling his Kameo when he uses it too

Combos can be much more than "extended" but I digress. My point is dashing/walking speed are rather slow and launchers send opponents too far for certain characters to proceed with juggling (Kitana seems to be the main one affected by this).

 

[Metin]

the reason is Nrs thinks it looks stupid, during mkxs development they mentioned it to I believe RIP the Tekken player. That’s why they brought run back for X.

Problem with the run button, it is totally ruining the neutral, i have no problem with it tbh but i can understand why ppl complain about it, after those complain they came with MK11's wavedashing, i don't even know if that was intentional or not, problem with wavedashing it was working for some characters but not working for many other and it wasn't smooth as MK9's dash block. Now we have MK1 on the horizon, we have dash that nobody have any idea how they work, what is the benefit of dashing and devs said to Justin Fog something like we don't want to push players to do wavedash but we have faster walking speed instead. This is very early situation i understand but walking and dashing are different things with different purposes.

 

[haketh]

I’d rather they just adjust walk speeds than add some wavedashing, garbage mechanic and it reminds me how it hurt a character like Baraka in MK11 extremely bad because he was a character with a bad dash but really good walk speed but wave dash completely negated that strength and made catching people a nightmare.

People act like Wavedashing is a necessary thing in MK just because walkspeeds were so bad before it was needed.

 

[Metin]

I’d rather they just adjust walk speeds than add some wavedashing, garbage mechanic and it reminds me how it hurt a character like Baraka in MK11 extremely bad because he was a character with a bad dash but really good walk speed but wave dash completely negated that strength and made catching people a nightmare.

People act like Wavedashing is a necessary thing in MK just because walkspeeds were so bad before it was needed.

i don't know it is necassary or something but walking and dashing are not a replacement for each other. Walking isn't a mobility tool, it is something you expect from a fighting game, your character suppose to walk forward and backward, suppose crouch and jump. Dash is a mobility tool that allows you to go forward or backward faster, that is why it is a mobility tool, not mentioning wavedashing here, just dashing itself. if someone come and say we have dash but forget it walking is faster, it sounds really really weird.

 

[spidey300]

this is my biggest worry too. The slow, awkward, stuck in the mud ground moment.

I agree with people above talking about the awkwardness (visually) of crouch dashing. But the more I think about it the more I like it. Instead of the dash block of mk9 (that I loved) or the blink and you miss it wave dashing of mk11, I like the thought that I can still check a player if I read they’re gonna do a crouch dash. Similar to sf6 drive rush. Since crouch dashing doesn’t end in a block, or at least as instant of a block as a dash block or wave dash into block/flawless block. At least thats my hope, I haven’t seen enough gameplay.

if crouch dashing is as difficult to execute as wave dashing, and still as essential to gameplay, then fuck that shit just return to the goddamn dash block. Fuck

it's not even that it seems difficult it just seems not worth doing. maybe someone actually needs time to practice or set a macro to make it stupidly easy but it looks like it hurts more than it helps

 

[spidey300]

the reason is Nrs thinks it looks stupid, during mkxs development they mentioned it to I believe RIP the Tekken player. That’s why they brought run back for X.

nrs devs must think they're gods gift to fighting game development because just about every piece of movement tech looks stupid on paper.

 

[ticklebandit!]

it's not even that it seems difficult it just seems not worth doing. maybe someone actually needs time to practice or set a macro to make it stupidly easy but it looks like it hurts more than it helps

well I would hate for the neutral of this game to boil down to am I gonna jump in punch/kick or am I gonna empty jump in? Thinkin of the up block mechanic here.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

well I would hate for the neutral of this game to boil down to am I gonna jump in punch/kick or am I gonna empty jump in? Thinkin of the up block mechanic here.

Then you add ontop of that meta "should I anti air them and just be safe entirely? Or should I try to upblock and take 40% off their healthbar"

Its going to be extra interesting for characters who can alter their jumps. Like imagine Sindel jumping in, quickly canceling into a float, then dropping to the ground to bait out the upblock.

 

[Juggs]

Then you add ontop of that meta "should I anti air them and just be safe entirely? Or should I try to upblock and take 40% off their healthbar"

Its going to be extra interesting for characters who can alter their jumps. Like imagine Sindel jumping in, quickly canceling into a float, then dropping to the ground to bait out the upblock.

The upblock is a great idea for a mechanic. Jumps have always been way too powerful in MK games and one of the reasons is because of the lack of good and consistent anti airs. Being able to punish jump attacks on block is a great new addition. I’m also curious if there’s any downside to upblocking. I understand that you can empty jump, but is empty jumping really going to be a counter to upblocking if there’s no recovery when you upblock? Regardless I think it adds in a unique mind game, especially if there’s some good anti airs and especially if there’s anti airs that are good for empty jumps but not good for jumping attacks.

 

[Mikemetroid]

So, NRS clearly didn't like dash-blocking for whatever reason, and players found a workaround instantly. At this point, I don't know why bother with NOT allowing dash-blocking again? People are quite clearly still going to do it, it just requires an additional step - unless they ALSO make the crouch-dash not a thing anymore.

Dash blocking in MK9 was an accident.

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Dash blocking in MK9 was an accident.

Yes, which is why we had the run button in MKX... however we did get dash blocking in mk11 again, only for it to be "removed" in MK1 and players immediately finding a workaround lmao. At this point Im not sure what the devs are intending exactly.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

The upblock is a great idea for a mechanic. Jumps have always been way too powerful in MK games and one of the reasons is because of the lack of good and consistent anti airs. Being able to punish jump attacks on block is a great new addition. I’m also curious if there’s any downside to upblocking. I understand that you can empty jump, but is empty jumping really going to be a counter to upblocking if there’s no recovery when you upblock? Regardless I think it adds in a unique mind game, especially if there’s some good anti airs and especially if there’s anti airs that are good for empty jumps but not good for jumping attacks.

It was either Ketchup or Max who mentioned that Upblock does have recovery to it and you can punish it

 

[Rude]

This was my biggest fear once Kameos were revealed to be in the game. I dont want to have to rely on Kameos to do combos, and Im sure others dont either. As much I like most of what I seeing in this new installment, the "its basically MK 11 PT II" narrative is kind of holding some truth (though it LOOKS nothing like MK 11, that observation amongst the doubters is still valid to an extent)

There's already plenty of videos showing Sub Zero and others doing kombos without Kameos. You will be able to kombo with and without them.

 

[Juggs]

It was either Ketchup or Max who mentioned that Upblock does have recovery to it and you can punish it

Oh gotcha, interesting. Hopefully they’ll have the frame data in game like they normally do

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Oh gotcha, interesting. Hopefully they’ll have the frame data in game like they normally do

They do. And interestingly they've said Flawless Block doesn't change frame data, but in the moves list every move has frame value for both on block and on flawless block. Most are exactly the same, except for D2s. Where they become incredibly punishable around -13 on flawless block.

 

[Rathalos]

They do. And interestingly they've said Flawless Block doesn't change frame data, but in the moves list every move has frame value for both on block and on flawless block. Most are exactly the same, except for D2s. Where they become incredibly punishable around -13 on flawless block.

Sajam actually talked about this in a stream, he asked the Nrs people about it, and they said it must be a mistake on their frame data reader, and it’s not supposed to have different frames for any move.
It is just there to negate chip.
Granted that could change, but that’s the story right now.

 

[Kiss the Missile]

Sajam actually talked about this in a stream, he asked the Nrs people about it, and they said it must be a mistake on their frame data reader, and it’s not supposed to have different frames for any move.
It is just there to negate chip.
Granted that could change, but that’s the story right now.

I just can't see that being the case when they have frame data listed for both. If its always the same, whats the point of listing it.

 

[Rathalos]

I just can't see that being the case when they have frame data listed for both. If its always the same, whats the point of listing it.

I would imagine it's left over from an early iteration of the game when Flawless block was more powerful.
The game has been in development for a long time now, a lot of things have probably changed.

But again, it could change, but this is what NRS is currently saying.

 

[subzert]

Any recommendations for a good video on explaining what exactly is wave dashing?

 

[Felipe_Gewehr]

Any recommendations for a good video on explaining what exactly is wave dashing?

It is basically a form of dash-blocking but made in a fast and rhythmic manner to make your character traverse the screen as fast as possible. It kinda makes you character look like waves/ripples traversing water hence the name.

 

[ShaolinGunFu]

Run button could provide huge depth-

running before jumping is needed to get high, normal jumping is like a hop.

running both directions makes zoners and rushdown happy and opens up diversity of distance

then bring back run jabs and back to prevent throws instead of the new tech way