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Breakthrough - Kano FINALLY, The Kano Community Speaks Up. Save Kano's Relevance With Needed Fixes And Reasonable Buffs

ciaran carrick

Lars a noob
I was responding to you, but referring to other people that come in and say "GIT GUD" or "WOW EVERYONE WANTS BUFFS", without actually realizing what is being aked for
Took too long editing :/

Reading the changes 2 useless moves(b1, AA laser) receive alterations that make them work properly, those are fixs, not buffs.
 

ciaran carrick

Lars a noob
To be fair to Salt Shaker, the title is "Needed Fixes and Buffs"
What he said shouted otherwise, it's a fix thread with 1 wish buff on top.
Exempting Commando change, Everything was essentially a fix.

Salt posted arrogantly and deserved any scrutiny posted in response.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
What he said shouted otherwise, it's a fix thread with 1 wish buff on top.
Exempting Commando change, Everything was essentially a fix.

Salt posted arrogantly and deserved any scrutiny posted in response.
Arrogantly how? Have you seen what some of the other forums asked for and looked like on this topic? Couldn't have with that comment.
 
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DFC

Cutthroat Truther
What he said shouted otherwise, it's a fix thread with 1 wish buff on top.
Exempting Commando change, Everything was essentially a fix.

Salt posted arrogantly and deserved any scrutiny posted in response.
Except what he "shouted" was exactly what he wrote. That is literally fixes and buffs. And no, more plus frames on EX knives is not a fix, because it implies that EX knives as they are are not working. They are working, just not very well. You aren't questioning the changes suggested, you are arguing the wording around said suggestions. It is a completely pointless thing to do.
 

Zatoichi

Fabulous Goofball
You know, I've never noticed just how bad his Up Ball was until last night where all these air attacks either traded or beat out Up Ball and I ate 30% to 45% because of it. Up Ball really needs more priority so people can't just jump in on him for free. Based on what I read in this thread, here is an updated list of changes and fixes I think Kano should get.

Universal:
  • Up Ball has more priority over air attacks
  • Enhanced Up Ball hitbox adjusted so the 2nd hit won't whiff on block.
  • Air Ball can be Enhanced on Block
  • 2% damage increase on b13
  • Adjusted hitbox of 112 so the last two hits no longer whiff on crouching opponents
Commando:
  • Can tick throw off of F4
  • Hitbox on Command Throws adjusted so they can no longer whiff on attacking opponents
Cutthroat:
  • Adjusted hitbox on B1, allowing it to hit more consistently. Seriously, I had this move whiff on me at just short of point black range.
Cybernetic:
  • 2% damage increase on b13 2+4, b23 2+4, f3 2+4
  • 3% damage increase on enhanced b13 2+4, b23 2+4, f3 2+4
  • Enhanced Knives +12 on block

The underlined are fixes that really need to happen, the rest are wishful buffs.
 

Error

DF2+R2
We're fighting with each other since you guys think he needs buffs and we're fine with him the way he is. When did I complain about feeling attacked?
You're complaining about fighting and negativity that you more or less brought here, before this thread was mostly positive buff vibes :cool:.
Actually the Kitana mains were always upset with their character but didn't end up making an organized buff request thread until not long before the last patch came out soooo
Now you're moving the goalpost since your Shinnok example turned out to be false, and Kitana players were still asking for buffs and alluding to a buff wishlist thread for a while before they posted it.

It's not condescending to point out what you guys' opinions on the character is, if you don't want an easy character then why are you asking for buffs? And don't put quotation marks around words that aren't actually in my posts, you're not helping your argument by doing that.
It's condescending to say "I'm disappointed in you guys" like you're our 3rd grade teacher or something. And sorry I didn't paraphrase you word for word:

If you're more focussed on easy wins
I'm sorry you want him to be easier to win with but if you'd rather go for easy win top tier characters then drop Kano
if you're complaining then it's only because you'd rather have an easy character to win with.
if you want a character that gives you easier wins then don't play Kano.
If you want to win everything easy then change character, it's not hard.
if you don't want an easy character then why are you asking for buffs? And don't put quotation marks around words that aren't actually in my posts, you're not helping your argument by doing that.
:rolleyes:
My point is that while you guys are the ones asking for buffs people like Coach Steve and I are content with our character and will continue to play him because we like to play him and don't care about what tier he is. If you care about winning more than what character you play then instead of complaining about the character you currently play just go pick up someone else because complaining just brings unnecessary negativity.
You do you.

Lol are you actually suggesting buff threads made by randoms are good evidence? Come on dude I'm sure you know better than that.
Moving the goalpost again, why does it matter who made the thread? The one made by console combat(P2Win hidey most likely) on April 25 received plenty of likes/responses, including yours and he seemed to know what he was talking about, and usedcarsalesmang may not be a top payer, but he's a regular here, that leaves the thread made by Helter Skelter, who doesn't post a lot, but he's been here since MK9 and his thread still generated discussion. Then there's probably plenty of buff discussion in the general Shinnok threads.

Sorry for the 50 notifications this reply will give you lul

Also, this argument is just going in circles and all it's doing is derailing the thread. Just make your case for why you think every Kano variation is fine if you haven't already, there's no point in bringing this further.
 
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RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
You're complaining about fighting and negativity that you more or less brought here, before this thread was mostly positive buff vibes :cool:.

Now you're moving the goalpost since your Shinnok example turned out to be false, and Kitana players were still asking for buffs and alluding to a buff wishlist thread for a while before they posted it.


It's condescending to say "I'm disappointed in you guys" like you're our 3rd grade teacher or something. And sorry I didn't paraphrase you word for word:












:rolleyes:

You do you.


Moving the goalpost again, why does it matter who made the thread? The one made by console combat(P2Win hidey most likely) on April 25 received plenty of likes/responses, including yours and he seemed to know what he was talking about, and usedcarsalesmang may not be a top payer, but he's a regular here, that leaves the thread made by Helter Skelter, who doesn't post a lot, but he's been here since MK9 and his thread still generated discussion. Then there's probably plenty of buff discussion in the general Shinnok threads.

Sorry for the 50 notifications this reply will give you lul
When it comes to the Shinnok thread, we definitely asked for fixes and then it was discovered that he was unfinished and so we knew it was only a matter of time before he received buffs. Why unlock a shitty character at the end of story? We however didn't expect things like Bone Shaper's projectile being buffed the way it was. Then again it was -12 on hit before. We really didn't know what to ask for. B3/F4 change made Impostor viable but not his other variations. Then this patch comes and as @General M2Dave said: He's Cybernetic Kano with offense. I kinda agree with that, though Shinnok may receive a nerf down the line, it may be inevitable.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
When it comes to the Shinnok thread, we definitely asked for fixes and then it was discovered that he was unfinished and so we knew it was only a matter of time before he received buffs. Why unlock a shitty character at the end of story? We however didn't expect things like Bone Shaper's projectile being buffed the way it was. Then again it was -12 on hit before. We really didn't know what to ask for. B3/F4 change made Impostor viable but not his other variations. Then this patch comes and as @General M2Dave said: He's Cybernetic Kano with offense. I kinda agree with that, though Shinnok may receive a nerf down the line, it may be inevitable.
I don't think so. He's really good now, but seems like a build that they were aiming for. When you look at what's lined up for some of the other characters in the game, he seems fairly on point. MKX has some true bs in it so I think he'll be ok.

Shinnok is basically where I'd hope Kano would be at. Strong enough to take on most Mu's well, but not too strong where it's problematic.
 

RM_NINfan101

Nine Inch Nails fan from Metro Detroit, Michigan
I don't think so. He's really good now, but seems like a build that they were aiming for. When you look at what's lined up for some of the other characters in the game, he seems fairly on point. MKX has some true bs in it so I think he'll be ok.

Shinnok is basically where I'd hope Kano would be at. Strong enough to take on most Mu's well, but not too strong where it's problematic.
With NRS I never really know. Shinnok's MB sparks might eventually get the plus frames reduced, I mean, we have talked about what could happen, though he was so bad for so long, I wouldn't want them to nerf him yet. Wait until after EVO when you can see what he can truly do. Kenshi received some nerfs in the last patch, did he not? So... anything is possible IMO.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
With NRS I never really know. Shinnok's MB sparks might eventually get the plus frames reduced, I mean, we have talked about what could happen, though he was so bad for so long, I wouldn't want them to nerf him yet. Wait until after EVO when you can see what he can truly do. Kenshi received some nerfs in the last patch, did he not? So... anything is possible IMO.
True true. Good point. Hope for the minors!
 

buyacushun

Normalize grab immunity.
What happened to Kano's b1? I was looking at patch notes and see no mention of a change to Kano's b1.
 

Daemantalo

Not Good Enough
I think the best we Kano mains can do is just wait for balance patches. I'm never going to drop him fully, but it might be time to find another main that has better tools to compete. Cutthroat is the most balanced of Kano variations, and the other two are more or less on the same tier level. It's sad to see our community getting told to level up when a word hasn't been uttered until now and from that previous thread some other guy made. As much as I would like the tools listed within this tread to happen, I just see it as a long shot. We've just got to stay strong and shrug off some of the "GET GUD" and "LUL U WUNT BUPHS NUBS" comments.
 

VoyagersRevenge

AUGMENTED
How is the competition at StartUp? It's a monthly right? I think I'll go myself if the players are good.
This tournament was held at another location in the Bronx on Boston rd besides their original location but check out the site at sbsq.org and their Twitter for details. I went up against 2 amazing goros and a some wannabe DJTs. The mkx scene is valid and the cash prize pot was worth it compared to some locals I've been to. Great equipment too.
 

FlappyDaniel

Snappin' spines all day e'ry day.
What happened to Kano's b1? I was looking at patch notes and see no mention of a change to Kano's b1.
Kano's back one got patched in the very first patch that fixed the block adv of a lot of people's moves, it also got more recovery frames, so it's not nearly as oppressive a pressure tool as it was at launch.

edit: also @Zatoichi air ball can already be MB if you land in front of them. I think this is good enough. Makes you have to space it if you want to catch them off guard with just an unblockable tackle. And you shouldn't be able to just yolo Air balls and have a way out if it's blocked. I also don't like F4 being a tick throw because we already have so many tick grabs that are off of a single normal. We really need it in a string if we want it to make a difference at all.
 

DFC

Cutthroat Truther
Kano's back one got patched in the very first patch that fixed the block adv of a lot of people's moves, it also got more recovery frames, so it's not nearly as oppressive a pressure tool as it was at launch.

edit: also @Zatoichi air ball can already be MB if you land in front of them. I think this is good enough. Makes you have to space it if you want to catch them off guard with just an unblockable tackle. And you shouldn't be able to just yolo Air balls and have a way out if it's blocked. I also don't like F4 being a tick throw because we already have so many tick grabs that are off of a single normal. We really need it in a string if we want it to make a difference at all.
I'm still a bit confused on the whole pre patch B1. I understand it wasn't supposed to be +2, but I always wonder what made it say it was 0, if their intention was to make it -2.

And on your second point, I can't MB the air ball anymore. It gets punished every time. I think the last match I did it in, I ate two 40% combos when I MB'd air ball.
 

FlappyDaniel

Snappin' spines all day e'ry day.
Well yeah you can't do it unless the first hit whiffs and he lands and you think they wont react in time, then you can try and MB for the tackle, but it's risky to try and do it too much because MB air ball takes an eternity to recover. I think Air ball really should be primarily used as an Air to Air tool. I can't stress enough how useful it is against Tanya. Plus it's so punishable that you can't afford to have it blocked too many times. Gotta feel out your openings. If anybody can't get Instant air kano balls I suggest to try and get 'em down. It's really useful to be able to vary up the height that you air ball at.
 

DFC

Cutthroat Truther
Well, I mean I'd actually meterburn it, but be hit into the combo before I could tackle them
 

LEGI0N47

I like to play bad characters
Agreed that if commando got another tick it needs to be in a string.

Also I just wanted to add that I think there is one single use for up laser besides the brutality. If you land a nip and follow with ex up laser it's I believe 20% unbreakable. Very situational. Thoughts?
 

DFC

Cutthroat Truther
Agreed that if commando got another tick it needs to be in a string.

Also I just wanted to add that I think there is one single use for up laser besides the brutality. If you land a nip and follow with ex up laser it's I believe 20% unbreakable. Very situational. Thoughts?
I'd like it if Commando got a new string as well. Maybe a B2/F2 starter. something with more than 3 hits. Doesn't need to be Erron Black level where you can(could) stagger the string into tick grabs though. Maybe give it a tighter timing like Lao's string if you're going to make it a nice tick setup

Granted, this is something I'd like, rather than something he needs.
 

NHDR

Kombatant
I do think that Kano needs some fixes. What's the point of air laser, for example? I never use it and see no reason to. Might as well remove it if its not going to be made into a competent AA.
 

VoyagersRevenge

AUGMENTED
I do think that Kano needs some fixes. What's the point of air laser, for example? I never use it and see no reason to. Might as well remove it if its not going to be made into a competent AA.
The damage isn't worth it at all.. only time I use the move is by accident and I'm sure everyone can agree on that.. Happens everytime I set up B321 in the corner after a cancelled Kano ball to extend combos :(
 

FlappyDaniel

Snappin' spines all day e'ry day.
I think if AA Laser got a few less active frames (Hear me out, I don't actually know its active frames off top of my head) but then became more reliable of an AA tool (bigger hitbox/more priority, whichever) it would be just fine. Would require strict timing since the active time is low but if it popped them up enough in the air that you could get a juggle follow up he could become a very solid defensive zoner between Knives and Upball/Uplaser and B1