Fighting game archetypes and the next MK: A better way to balance

[G4S KT]

does anyone else like a fighting game MORE because of a small roster?

Honestly I feel like the ideal cast number is 16-20 characters

 

[Linkuei82]

Cyrax - thinker. Lol. More like Dreamer, and a net.

lol oh man, I dont know why but this brought to tears.

 

[STB Sgt Reed]

does anyone else like a fighting game MORE because of a small roster?

Honestly I feel like the ideal cast number is 16-20 characters

No, bigger is better to me.

I inevitably get bored playing the same 2-4 characters and start branching out to other parts of the roster that I hadn't thought to explore yet.

Plus on small rosters if you don't care for most of the characters represented... you can't do the above mentioned exploration. Leads to dropping the game faster imo.

 

[EndofGameBoss]

I don't like the idea of Baraka as a turtle character. That would get you killed in the previous MK game. However, I understand you're point and I kind of agree, but this concept becomes muddy when the roster grows beyond a certain number of characters.

 

[kabelfritz]

Good OP, id see baraka in the rushdown but definitely NOT turtle section though

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

I don't like the idea of Baraka as a turtle character. That would get you killed in the previous MK game. However, I understand you're point and I kind of agree, but this concept becomes muddy when the roster grows beyond a certain number of characters.

I know...people want to blow up my placings but thats the point. The placings are very much my interpretation of how they are played but may not exactly be right.

I just want NRS to pre-place characters and give them tools that support that placing. If they don't support that placing then they need to nerfed or adjusted to not be overpowered.

An example would be NW. He is a rushdown character that has pushback on everything he does...that is uncharacteristic of a rushdown character at the base level and makes him worse than he should be.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

does anyone else like a fighting game MORE because of a small roster?

Honestly I feel like the ideal cast number is 16-20 characters

Yes

I truly do.

KI is too small atm... but after the 2nd season, it'll probably have one of the best rosters in any FG.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

Good OP, id see baraka in the rushdown but definitely NOT turtle section though

Only reason I dodn't put him in rushdown was because he isn't plus on anything and doesn't really have good pressure. I'd put him in vortex before I put him in rushdown. His AA plus blade charge made him a wall that could get you to the corner but his toolset doesn't seem rushdown like to me.

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Only reason I dodn't put him in rushdown was because he isn't plus on anything and doesn't really have good pressure. I'd put him in vortex before I put him in rushdown. His AA plus blade charge made him a wall that could get you to the corner but his toolset doesn't seem rushdown like to me.

I would actually put both Baraka and Sub in more of a "space control" zoner than anything.

Both of them want to keep you in the space they can control. They are both safe, but not plus. Hit and run if you will. IDK.

So many characters... it is hard to really archetype them all.

 

[kabelfritz]

Only reason I dodn't put him in rushdown was because he isn't plus on anything and doesn't really have good pressure. I'd put him in vortex before I put him in rushdown. His AA plus blade charge made him a wall that could get you to the corner but his toolset doesn't seem rushdown like to me.

he has advantage with f4 (knee) and df1 pressure, frametraps and mixups anywhere on the Screen especially Corner, also gdlk footsies with d4. not Johnny cage but a very underrated and unexplored rushdowner imo. the ridicubad startup of some important strings hurt him though

 

[EndofGameBoss]

Only reason I dodn't put him in rushdown was because he isn't plus on anything and doesn't really have good pressure. I'd put him in vortex before I put him in rushdown. His AA plus blade charge made him a wall that could get you to the corner but his toolset doesn't seem rushdown like to me.

The only non special I can remember that made him plus on block was his d4. On some characters he could get a free f44 follow up after a d4, which was fun against people not familiar with his tools lol. He could cancel a lot of his normals into specials that would give him a slight advantage. Man, I miss playing Mk. Anyway, back on topic lol.

 

[trustinme]

I think nightwolf needs his own category 'spend the entire match blocking whilst praying for a mistake' character.

 

[EndofGameBoss]

he has advantage with f4 (knee) and df1 pressure, frametraps and mixups anywhere on the Screen especially Corner, also gdlk footsies with d4. not Johnny cage but a very underrated and unexplored rushdowner imo. the ridicubad startup of some important strings hurt him though

LOL! Yea that's right. I use to have some silly tactics with him and f44.

 

[Rude]

I always though Nightwolf was more about footsies/whiff punishing?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

Baraka had "fake" pressure

moving on.

 

[kabelfritz]

The only non special I can remember that made him plus on block was his d4. On some characters he could get a free f44 follow up after a d4, which was fun against people not familiar with his tools lol. He could cancel a lot of his normals into specials that would give him a slight advantage. Man, I miss playing Mk. Anyway, back on topic lol.

f4/f44 is technically a frametrap... the f4 Standing reset gave him enough advantage for d3~df1 with the only Option out being a jump. once respected, you had all Options...

 

[THTB]

He's not a turtle. Most players made the mistake of thinking he's supposed to lay Ice Clones and run away the entire match. That's why most Sub-Zero players were fucking terrible and thus considered him bottom 5 or whatever the consensus is.

...Where the hell did you come from LOL?

Long time no see.

 

[trufenix]

uh, thats fine...thats just not my point.

What is your point then? That in MK10 they should take tools away from characters to make them play more linearly? Make it so every Sub Zero in the world has to play the same lame game instead of some being able to play one way and others in another?

Do you believe KI would be a worse game if Glacius could do more than just keepaway or Sabrewulf more than rushdown?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

What is your point then? That in MK10 they should take tools away from characters to make them play more linearly? Make it so every Sub Zero in the world has to play the same lame game instead of some being able to play one way and others in another?

Do you believe KI would be a worse game if Glacius could do more than just keepaway or Sabrewulf more than rushdown?

Glacius CAN do more than keepaway when he pops instinct

that was his point.

Find a way to either let characters go both ways... or super enhance the thing they do.........

not give one character tons of shit... and others non... just because thats "what the character is"

 

[Rude]

I think character concept should play a role in what their tools are.

For example...

Scorpion has a teleport because in canon, he can do that. It is one of his abilities.

Now, should Johnny Cage also get a teleport, even though he is a regular human with no super powers?

 

[Qwark28]

Only reason I dodn't put him in rushdown was because he isn't plus on anything and doesn't really have good pressure. I'd put him in vortex before I put him in rushdown. His AA plus blade charge made him a wall that could get you to the corner but his toolset doesn't seem rushdown like to me.

Blade charge is a poking tool to get ppl in the corner and check them, as well as get a knockdown fullscreen vs projectiles.

D3 was 6f into a 0f blade tango dance or whatever

D4 was excelent

221+2 was +8 and he was + in many other things

@1man3letters can explain better

 

[EarlyReflections]

Cyrax - thinker. Lol. More like Dreamer, and a net.

This!

 

[deathblooms2k4]

does anyone else like a fighting game MORE because of a small roster?

Honestly I feel like the ideal cast number is 16-20 characters

It depends on how much depth the characters have. The more depth characters have the less you need to keep people entertained. Less characters certainly make balancing substantially easier to do but can often lead to people who are unsatisfied with no character to truly identify with. Even injustice with it's rather large roster had people like Reo and Pig who didn't really find the spark they were looking for until DLC releases.

 

[Rude]

So was Baraka a shitter because of zoning, or was it because there were other characters that were strictly better?

 

[NRF CharlieMurphy]

So was Baraka a shitter because of zoning, or was it because there were other characters that were strictly better?

He didn't force people into "not blocking" with his frame traps.

It was much easier to deal with him because he coudlnt' confirm his fastest frame trap into anything that was + on block..... relegating him to be a hit and run type character.

and he had a high hitbox.