Fantastically Fancy Fan Favourite: The Kitana general discussion-thread

[SkatanMilla]

You know the drill, any new fandings and discussion go in here.

 

[SkatanMilla]

d+1~fan cutter > repeat.

This is really good pressure in the corner, I don't have any framedata for it but it seems as if both hits of fancutter is blocked, the next d+1 is uninterruptable. Due to how fast d+1 is and it's range it also doubles as a get off me move.
From what I've tested it seems that what they have to do to get out of the loop is mash something in-between of d+1 and fan cutter, since it's not a true blockstring, nor does it combo.
But basically, d+1 is too fast for anyone to react to it with a button press, so I think people will have to commit to "as soon as I block anything I will press the button".
At that point you can probably land hits with stuff like 2,1 and such.
Another good thing is that it builds a bunch of meter if they block, and it does good chip damage too.

Since her mid/low mixup game isn't the best, I've found that this is a good way to get some damage out. It's happened for me several times that I do d+1~fan cutter twice on block, then f+2,1 to get the launch successfully, so it's worth playing around with I think.

 

[Konqrr]

If d+1~Cutter is blocked low, the second hit of the Cutter whiffs and you are at a disadvantage and may even be punished. It is good, but don't abuse it.

Also, welcome to TYM. You are a very well known SF4 player. Glad to have you!

 

[SkatanMilla]

If d+1~Cutter is blocked low, the second hit of the Cutter whiffs and you are at a disadvantage and may even be punished. It is good, but don't abuse it.

Also, welcome to TYM. You are a very well known SF4 player. Glad to have you!

I have tested this quite a bit, and midscreen the 2nd hit of fan cutter can be ducked under, but in the corner I seem to be getting both hits on block consistently against most characters, might need some more looking into?

Thanks for the welcome!

 

[Konqrr]

I have tested this quite a bit, and midscreen the 2nd hit of fan cutter can be ducked under, but in the corner I seem to be getting both hits on block consistently against most characters, might need some more looking into?

Thanks for the welcome!

This used to be a block infinite in an early build, but they fixed it so the second hit of the cutter doesn't hit characters ducking and blocking.

I have been testing crouch blocking vs Jax and the second hit whiffs every time in the corner. I will try other characters right now.

 

[SkatanMilla]

This used to be a block infinite in an early build, but they fixed it so the second hit of the cutter doesn't hit characters ducking and blocking.

I have been testing crouch blocking vs Jax and the second hit whiffs every time in the corner. I will try other characters right now.

Must exaplain why d+1 seems to be completely devoid of hit/blockstun

 

[Konqrr]

OK... I have tested against all large characters (seemingly large as in they had bigger hitboxes in previous 2d games, who knows now). All of them ducked under the second hit and all of them could uppercut her on reaction for blocking the d+1 and simply ducking. When they block the first hit of the Cutter (second hit whiffs) she is at a very slight disadvantage framewise and her opponent can get a d+1 before she can.

If they duck it I am sure that any character can get a full ground combo of choice.

 

[SkatanMilla]

OK... I have tested against all large characters (seemingly large as in they had bigger hitboxes in previous 2d games, who knows now). All of them ducked under the second hit and all of them could uppercut her on reaction for blocking the d+1 and simply ducking. When they block the first hit of the Cutter (second hit whiffs) she is at a very slight disadvantage framewise and her opponent can get a d+1 before she can.

If they duck it I am sure that any character can get a full ground combo of choice.

Ok, thanks for testing!

 

[Action Kungfu]

You could possibly try f+4 - fan cutter, because f+4's followup 1 strike hits Overhead. Even though f+4 as a strike can be crouched, it could be a great setup to get advantage on guard when they don't crouch f+4 initially, if fan cutter grants advantage. At which point you could provide some kind of other mixup between d+4 to get damage, or throw.

 

[Konqrr]

You could possibly try f+4 - fan cutter, because f+4's followup 1 strike hits Overhead. Even though f+4 as a strike can be crouched, it could be a great setup to get advantage on guard when they don't crouch f+4 initially, if fan cutter grants advantage. At which point you could provide some kind of other mixup between d+4 to get damage, or throw.

Only problem with that is that they must be standing for the f+4 to even 2-in-1 the Cutter.

I'll just stick with using it in combos... too risky!

 

[Action Kungfu]

Only problem with that is that they must be standing for the f+4 to even 2-in-1 the Cutter.

I'll just stick with using it in combos... too risky!

Yeah, that's what I mean if you manage to connect with f+4 poking.

Although yeah, just holding a crouch guard in general vs Kitana seems like a very good way of defending her attacks up close, based on her properties alone. And just unguarded crouching outside of her striking range and full screen. The only thing to even be scared of is the 1 followup from f+4 as far as I know. Her throw game might become very important, for playing an up close striking game(which is what I prefer, and it plays to my strengths). Her keep away game doesn't seem all that strong to me as far as threat and pressure, in comparison to her UMK3 incarnation, although she can runaway, avoid danger, and keep opponents from attacking her, like nobody's business.

So far, for me it's about string manipulation and poking with hitcheckable strings into her combos. It seems almost reminiscent of a moralist playing style.

 

[Konqrr]

The only thing to even be scared of is the 1 followup from f+4 as far as I know.

Don't forget her other overhead... the second hit of b12.

 

[SkatanMilla]

Interested to know a good anti-air for when someone is doing a close jump into xup j.p

 

[Action Kungfu]

Interested to know a good anti-air for when someone is doing a close jump into xup j.p

I have 3 anti airs so far:

uppercut
ex fan lift
neutral standing 3

 

[bob]

b2 is anti air too
--------------------

how do you fight vs noob??
it's so hard to get in with kitana :/

 

[Lomyn]

Don't forget her other overhead... the second hit of b12.

Is that combo-able, or at least safe on block? I'd check myself, but I'm at work. Also, Hi SkatanMilla, good to see you. I love the work you've done with Chun and Sakura in SFIV and SSFIV.

I have 3 anti airs so far:

uppercut
ex fan lift
neutral standing 3

The EX fan lift is great. I think that in the situation SM is referring to it is her best option, although I haven't experimented with neutral standing 3.

 

[SkatanMilla]

2,1~fan cutter will let the 2nd hit of fan cutter get blocked both in the corner and midscreen.
The first hit of fan cutter whiffs though so it's possible that if they commit to something it might be able to beat it out. Anybody know if she's at an advantage when the 2nd hit is blocked?

Does anybody know what square boost is on block btw?

 

[Pistol]

Interested to know a good anti-air for when someone is doing a close jump into xup j.p

I know w/ Mileena you can do a cr. 4, if it isn't a safe jump and she lowers her hitbox and knocks them out of the cross-up.

For Kitana? Maybe cr. 1, or cr. 4. Warning, I'm playing theory fighter.

 

[SkatanMilla]

I know w/ Mileena you can do a cr. 4, if it isn't a safe jump and she lowers her hitbox and knocks them out of the cross-up.

For Kitana? Maybe cr. 1, or cr. 4. Warning, I'm playing theory fighter.

For the purpose of dodging her d+3 is probably the best

-

also about stopping xups, her x-ray also works because she jumps backwards it stops them from getting over and they get hit by it.
And from the options that were suggested I think basic 3 and ex lift will work the best.
3~fan, dash 2~fan lift into combo works so that's some nice punishment you can get, I need to find something damaging from ex lift as well though.
Another thing that should work is:
ub+2~air fan, dash, fan, dash, f+2~fan, f+2~cutter 27%

 

[DYNA$TY]

Nice to see Combofiend playin dat Kitana.

 

[Konqrr]

2,1~fan cutter will let the 2nd hit of fan cutter get blocked both in the corner and midscreen.
The first hit of fan cutter whiffs though so it's possible that if they commit to something it might be able to beat it out. Anybody know if she's at an advantage when the 2nd hit is blocked?

I was trying stuff like that too and they can duck the first hit of the cutter that whiffs and get a full combo after the second hit of the cutter whiffs. It might be good as a last resort trickery though.

f+4 is slow but a good anti air also... I've tried to get a ground fan linked to it but it's too slow to connect. Perhaps an :en Fan Lift? But then why not just do the :en Fan Lift instead? I'll have to try the 3~Fan.

 

[DrDogg]

My current take on Kitana is as follows. I still need more match experience, but this is my mentality at the moment.

Primary pokes:
- b+1
- 3,3,3
- b+3,3
- f+3,1

I use these pokes because they cannot be ducked under any circumstances. Most of Kitana's other pokes can be ducked and punished during the first hit. I don't use f+2,1 all that often because during my limited experience with it, I lose momentum if it's blocked. I don't like that.

As Action Kungfu pointed out, f+3,1 is ridiculously easy to hit confirm into fan lift, so it's my preferred poke. However, some of the other pokes listed are faster, so I use those to condition my opponent to block more often.

Lately, I've been experimenting with f+3,1~d,b+4 and other mid-hitting strings into d,b+4. I'll update on how that works once I've done more testing.

Against opponents who do not have a teleport, I spam fans from a distance. When they close in, I use the previously mentioned pokes until I can score a combo. Against opponents with a teleport, I just rush them down.

 

[DYNA$TY]

I was trying stuff like that too and they can duck the first hit of the cutter that whiffs and get a full combo after the second hit of the cutter whiffs. It might be good as a last resort trickery though.

f+4 is slow but a good anti air also... I've tried to get a ground fan linked to it but it's too slow to connect. Perhaps an :en Fan Lift? But then why not just do the :en Fan Lift instead? I'll have to try the 3~Fan.

Does f+4,1 works as an anti-air? I know you can f+2,1, f+4,1, lift, so would f+4,1, lift work by itself against an airborne opponent?

 

[Konqrr]

Does f+4,1 works as an anti-air? I know you can f+2,1, f+4,1, lift, so would f+4,1, lift work by itself against an airborne opponent?

I think the f+4 hits them away as anti air and the 1 whiffs... I forget.

 

[DYNA$TY]

Oh alright, nvm then