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General/Other - Johnny Cage Fair changes to Jonathan Cage

coconutshrimp

coconutshrimp

Damn vro, hadda mess with yo auntie
DISCLAIMER: This is my opinion. I think these are pretty fair changes.

Johnny Cage is a really solid character imo, but there a few things that should be ironed out.

General buffs
-S1 is now 8 frames. Not necessary
-D1 is now 7 frames. Not necessary
-Tuxedo Johnny skin added. 100% necessary
-Jump normals now hit a lot more consistently

A-List
-Absolutely nothing

Stunt Double
-113 Mimic Rising Shadow whiffs fixed and hit no matter stance. (Except females because fuck you)
-F24 Mimic Shadow Kick corner whiffs fixed and hit no matter what stance.
-Double Straight Forceballs now hit High Mid.
-Mimic recharge reduced to 5 seconds.(Luxury not necessary)
-Mimics no longer go away when Parried or X-Ray'd.
-F3 Mimic summon now as "safe" as 4 mimic summon on block. (Luxury Not necessary)

Fisticuffs
-I don't play Fisticuffs often so here is some one who does @ismael4790 and a link to his thread on Fistibuffs http://testyourmight.com/threads/why-fc-is-bottom-tier-and-ways-to-save-him.57313/ .

I know the stunt double section was the biggest, but I couldn't help myself. Fisticuffs I have no idea what you could change to make him viable, and A-List doesn't need anything given or taken away from it. You would need to add a couple things and I imagine a few people would be kinda iffy on it, because Tempest lao is the only character that is allowed to be good apparently.
 
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dennycascade

dennycascade

UPR_ghastem
I main JC.
Those general buffs, even though they only alter his pokes by 1/60th of a second, would be 100% out of the question. Definitely not needed and not happening. I agree on the stunt double buffs except for the faster cooldown on mimic summon. You're not supposed to be able to get your clones back immediately after almost every combo.
Edit: missed the stunt double f3 thing. That just isn't happening lmao
 
IrishMantis

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
coconutshrimp said:
Stunt Double
-113 Mimic Rising Shadow whiffs fixed and hit no matter stance. (Except females because fuck you)
-F24 Mimic Shadow Kick corner whiffs fixed and hit no matter what stance.
-Mimics no longer go away when Parried or X-Ray'd.
Click to expand...
These that I have quoted is all he needs for SD anything else is overkill
Yeah the second fireball hitting mid would be a bonus but it's not needed

He has the best D4 in the game IMO it needs 0 buffs it's fine at 11

Same with his other normals
 
coconutshrimp

coconutshrimp

Damn vro, hadda mess with yo auntie
dennycascade said:
I main JC.
Those general buffs, even though they only alter his pokes by 1/60th of a second, would be 100% out of the question. Definitely not needed and not happening. I agree on the stunt double buffs except for the faster cooldown on mimic summon. You're not supposed to be able to get your clones back immediately after almost every combo.
Edit: missed the stunt double f3 thing. That just isn't happening lmao
Click to expand...
I guess the whole mimic cooldown thing is kinda ehh.
 
Airvidal

Airvidal

"You play weird" It's called being unorthodox ;)
If I don't see any nerfs along with the buffs from what you wrote I see this as fraudulent. Biased.
 
DrFolmer

DrFolmer

AKA Uncle Kano
I'll take the tuxedo skin and the stunt double whiff fixes. The general buffs are too much IMO. 8 frame s1 is okay I guess, but having a 7 frame d1 and 10 frame d4 with huge hit advantage and huge low profile properties is too much IMO.

Mimics are crazy good and that's why there's a cooldown on them. They are insanely + on block (MSK that is) which means they jail well and it's a lot easier to pull off compared to some of the A-list cancels. They also lead to heavy damage - this variation has some really serious damage with meter as well as meterless. Stunt Double just needs consistency honestly.

And Fisticuffs - well, b12 needs huge buffs to compensate for his much worse footsies compared to the other variations. Oh, and fist bump needs to be useful.
 
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coconutshrimp

coconutshrimp

Damn vro, hadda mess with yo auntie
DrFolmer said:
I'll take the tuxedo skin and the stunt double whiff fixes. The general buffs are too much IMO. 8 frame s1 is okay I guess, but having a 7 frame d1 and 10 frame d4 with huge hit advantage and huge low profile properties is too much IMO.

Mimics are crazy good and that's why there's a cooldown on them. They are insanely + on block (MSK that is) which means the jail well and it's a lot easier to pull off compared to some of the A-list cancels. They also lead to heavy damage - this variation has some really serious damage with meter as well as meterless. Stunt Double just needs consistency honestly.

And Fisticuffs - well, b12 needs huge buffs to compensate for his much worse footsies compared to the other variations. Oh, and fist bump needs to be useful.
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For those normals I also thought a bit after posting it. Yeah it was a stupid idea. However, with D4, this doesn't change the fact it doesn't need a buff, Kano's D4 is 8 frames but also has 4 frames of hit advantage taken away. But I agree, don't know what I was thinking
 
dennycascade

dennycascade

UPR_ghastem
Also, yeah they should leave a-list alone but fix the occasional 113 into nut punch whiff problem. The only universal fix should be making all high moves not whiff on crouch blockers, as they're intended. Pretty much all whiffing bs in this game needs to go. Fisticuffs needs a total overhaul or just revert the nerfs. Now that everyone's pokes have been buffed, the nerfs are pointless
 
coconutshrimp

coconutshrimp

Damn vro, hadda mess with yo auntie
ismael4790 said:
Until now Cage has been one of the most hurted characters throughout the patches, being ignored and even severly nerfed in one variation.

Let's hope things change soon...
Click to expand...
Cage has been hurt no doubt, but Raiden had it wayyy worse in terms of nerfs by pretty much only being nerfed. Both these characters deserve respect and proper treatment since they were in MK since the start.
 
ismael4790

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
coconutshrimp said:
Cage has been hurt no doubt, but Raiden had it wayyy worse in terms of nerfs by pretty much only being nerfed. Both these characters deserve respect and proper treatment since they were in MK since the start.
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Agree, Raiden paid too much the option select removal and got nothing in exchange.
 
Airvidal

Airvidal

"You play weird" It's called being unorthodox ;)
coconutshrimp said:
You found me out. What would Johnny NEED a nerf in?
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It's actually too complex for me to just write it on here. People will crucify me for it and deny it with all their guts. I will need proof to persuade people 'cause the downplay is real. So, I'll post a thread with videos and such soon, very soon.

But for now I'll say that your suggestion of buffing his normals makes him even more broken. When it comes to A-List that is.
 
omooba

omooba

fear the moobs
f3 being run cancelled of whiff is almost 100% likely to be removed and i agree with that.
agree on clone call being safe in at least one scenario but f3 may be too good. would love it if that happened though.
and for fisticuffs they need to make his f3 unblockable and add about 13% dmg to his nutpunch
 
Kompetitor

Kompetitor

Johnny Cage Specialist
I completely agree with this. Cage as a whole is pretty meh, A List is the main reason hes considered top tier imo, so leave that as is. They should take away whiff canceling f3 and 121 rc but not skrc because it is a useful tool to trick opponents you are going to sk then go for overhead or forceball. SD is solid but could use a little help, id love to see more of them but they are rare. Fisticuffs is basically variationless cage so yeah NRS needs to help him lol.
 
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