Guide Explanation of Footsies (by Juicebox)

[Protagonist_1]

The video below shows Juicebox breaking down the footsie(neutral) game of SF4. He shows that whiff punishing is a combination of reaction and anticipation, as well as how players preemptively throw out jabs to stuff normals. Although this concept is not universal for all fighting games, it's still a good watch when it comes to understanding the neutral game.

For those looking to get into USF4, I feel this video is pretty damn good for beginners

Haitani (Makoto) vs. Juso

 

[Qwark28]

I've had a couple of people never tell me the anticipation part until I discovered it for myself, one of the reasons I got into SF4 a bit later than I would.

The misinformation that surrounds that game is too damn much.

 

[STRYKIE]

Sadly I'm not sure if this will curb those three infamous words we see on TYM, but I definitely appreciate the effort and research you've put into this thread Protagonist. Props.

 

[Briggs8417]

I watched these videos about a month ago, and I highly reccomend it to any fighting game player looking to level up their game, whether they be high level or not. Even if you have an understanding and grasp of footsies already. This video opens your eyes to a lot of things you might have been doing in neutral already but didn't understand why. Being concientious of it all can really step up your game and know what to look for in the neutral. I would definitely say it leveled me up.

 

[Solid]

Great tutorial, albeit Juicebox style is a little crazy it helped me out a lot.

 

[RunwayMafia]

Is this universal or limited to SF?

 

[Sajam]

Is this universal or limited to SF?

The idea behind whiff punishing is definitely not limited to SF4.

You can whiff punish in almost any fighting game in a similar manner, Injustice included. The difference between whiff punishing in Injustice compared to most games is whether you are trying to whiff punishing something like a d1 compared to an actual string. If you're whiff punishing a d1 then you have to stand at a range where the button will whiff, and use some kind of advancing/far reaching string/normal to punish for most situations. Whiff punishing strings is easier, because if you stand at a range where the string won't reach then the whiff punish is very easy because of the amount of time you have. Either way the concept applies to Injustice, just in a slightly adjusted way.

 

[THTB]

Is this universal or limited to SF?

It can be applied elsewhere.

 

[ChatterBox]

Thanks for posting this!

 

[RunwayMafia]

The idea behind whiff punishing is definitely not limited to SF4.

You can whiff punish in almost any fighting game in a similar manner, Injustice included. The difference between whiff punishing in Injustice compared to most games is whether you are trying to whiff punishing something like a d1 compared to an actual string. If you're whiff punishing a d1 then you have to stand at a range where the button will whiff, and use some kind of advancing/far reaching string/normal to punish for most situations. Whiff punishing strings is easier, because if you stand at a range where the string won't reach then the whiff punish is very easy because of the amount of time you have. Either way the concept applies to Injustice, just in a slightly adjusted way.

It can be applied elsewhere.

Yeah, the reason I asked is because I didn't watch the vid and I've seen "footsie" vids before that were pretty much strictly for said game. I'm familiar with whiff punishing (I could do this in MK9 consistently) but not so much in IGAU.

 

[Notez4]

http://sonichurricane.com/?page_id=1702

/Thread

 

[Briggs8417]

Yeah, the reason I asked is because I didn't watch the vid and I've seen "footsie" vids before that were pretty much strictly for said game. I'm familiar with whiff punishing (I could do this in MK9 consistently) but not so much in IGAU.

Whiff punishing in IGAU is harder because moves stay active for so much longer, as well as the fact that not many characters have very far reaching normals to catch hurtboxes. In response to the original question though, footsies can be applied into pretty much every fighting game, just in different forms and variations. These videos essentially just break down the concept of what footsies are and the mind set you should have in order to play them. It's very informative man I highly recommend you watch. I learned quite a few things from it, and a lot of what he talks about I did kind of subconciously, but never really thought about the reason why I was doing it. The fact that I'm more aware of these things now has actually helped a lot.

 

[rpg]

ill be listening to this a bit later. =)

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

I'm about halfway in the first video but man why does he look and sound like Tim Kish from Dom Fera Studios. Completely different than when he was doing MLG

EDIT: Tim Kish is to the right

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Superman: "For Spacing, and Footsies"
Scorpion: "THERE IS NO FOOTSIES!"

 

[Protagonist_1]

Is this universal or limited to SF?

@Sajam and @Joker8417 hit the nail on the head. In injustice, the walk speed and moves stay active for longer, making whiff punishing difficult at times, although still very much possible.

Still, some of the concepts in the vid can be applied to injustice. For example, Jupiter and Rico Suave throw out a lot of preemptive d1's to punish dash in attempts. This however can leave you open to jump in attacks, etc. If you look to much for the jump in, your opponent can dash in or walk in to close. You can stuff dash in's with quick moves, but this can lead to a free jump in or whiff punish (it's a cycle etc.). Finding the right balance, especially in competitive play, takes a lot of skill and concentration. Once you see it more in action, it starts to make a lot of sense, and it's easier to adjust to your opponents tactics.

Mind you that there are character's in injustice that don't have to play much a neutral game if any, depending if they have meter or not. Other characters are very limited on what they can and can't whiff punish. Then of course you have interractables as well. You really have to go into practice mode and see what is whiff punishable on reaction, or what can beat out preemptively, and the range you need to be at to whiff punish or beat out the move.

Still, these concepts vary from game to game. For example, in tekken JDCR, (korean player) is given so much respect at times in the neutral game he can practically wave dash in his opponents face a good 5 times, knowing they won't do anything or are too afraid to press a button (disrespecting someone's space).

Overall, it's a really interesting concept and there's more to it than just pokes, walking back and forth, and throwing out moves. I plan on getting USF4, so just wanted to post this just in case anyone was interested. I also feel this can also prove really helpful in KI as well, which has a more traditional footsie game to SF4 in my opinion.

 

[CrimsonShadow]

Is this universal or limited to SF?

KI is another good example -- you'll see a lot of it in good gameplay.

 

[SHAOLIN]

Footsies:

Reaction is part of it, but prediction is the rest of it

By Juicebox

I'm gonna remember those words next I play SF4

 

[RunwayMafia]

@Sajam and @Joker8417 hit the nail on the head. In injustice, the walk speed and moves stay active for longer, making whiff punishing difficult at times, although still very much possible.

Still, some of the concepts in the vid can be applied to injustice. For example, Jupiter and Rico Suave throw out a lot of preemptive d1's to punish dash in attempts. This however can leave you open to jump in attacks, etc. If you look to much for the jump in, you opponent can dash in or walk in to close. You can stuff dash in's with quick moves, but this can lead to a free jump in or whiff punish (it's a cycle etc.). Finding the right balance, especially in competitive play, takes a lot of skill and concentration. Once you see it more in action, it starts to make a lot of sense, and it's easier to adjust to your opponents tactics.

Mind you that there are character's in injustice that don't have to play much a neutral game if any, depending if they have meter or not. Other characters are very limited on what they can and can't whiff punish. Then of course you have interractables as well. You really have to go into practice mode and see what is whiff punishable on reaction, or what can beat out preemptively, and the range you need to be at to whiff punish or beat out the move.

Still, these concepts vary from game to game. For example, in tekken JDCR, (korean player) is given so much respect at times in the neutral game he can practically wave dash in his opponents face a good 5 times, knowing they won't do anything or are too afraid to press a button (disrespecting someone's space).

Overall, it's a really interesting concept and there's more to it than just pokes, walking back and forth, and throwing out moves. I plan on getting USF4, so just wanted to post this just in case anyone was interested. I also feel this can also prove really helpful in KI as well, which has a more traditional footsie game to SF4 in my opinion.

Great write up. And keep in mind, I'm no stranger to footsies per se, I just don't see it in it's traditional definition in IGAU (as often). Quite often when I play Theo online, he hits me with preemptive d1's CONSTANTLY when I (Killer Frost) dash towards him and what not.

As a KF main, I'm constantly trying to back dash and or walk back hoping my opponent will commit to SOMETHING, thus catching them with slide or iceberg. I'm just so used to being able to walk backwards with ease during pressure (mk9) and then whiff punish.

 

[HGTV Soapboxfan]

I was definitely able to relate this video to mk9 more than injustice (at least for me) but yeah it's a great video.

 

[Protagonist_1]

If anyone's interested, this is the match Juicebox is talking about at the end of the first video. Really good display of spacing and counterpokes:

 

[Protagonist_1]

Made a thread on this earlier, but this is just me messing around with injustice's neutral game, using the same drill Juicebox was doing:

 

[ChatterBox]

Made a thread on this earlier, but this is just me messing around with injustice's neutral game, using the same drill Juicebox was doing: *snip*

Thats awesome! Thanks so much for posting thread and this video.
WHY IS THIS THREAD NOT FRONT PAGED!? @AK/RM GamerBlake

 

[Gesture Required Ahead]

Made a thread on this earlier, but this is just me messing around with injustice's neutral game, using the same drill Juicebox was doing:

Cool to look at. But LBSH, this is never going to happen in a real match. The game is not designed for this type of footsies. MK9 did though. And that we've all witnessed.

 

[Protagonist_1]

Cool to look at. But LBSH, this is never going to happen in a real match. The game is not designed for this type of footsies. MK9 did though. And that we've all witnessed.

haha true lol. But you never know if the neutral game could get to that level where we could see stuff like this. I'm pretty sure if injustice where played for as long as SF4 it wouldn't be out of the realm of possibility, however by then mk10 would be out and injustice will be a forgotten memory.