Explain me frames, pls!

[Peckapowa]

I may be a noob, but I really don't see the point in frame data. You can tell what moves are safe and which aren't safe by playing. I don't see how studying numbers can help you mid-match. But I could just be a noob.

frame data is huge... if your -3 i know what moves i can do.

 

[xenogorgeous]

Frame data is always worth to know about ..... always !

Whoever say it otherwise, has no clue what is talking about ....

 

[CrazyBread]

Lol believe it or not SSBM is the reason I've been able to adapt to different kinds of fighting games because of the complexity. I played at pretty high level back in my days. It helps you learn what you commonly see in fighters and what you don't. I'm a big fan of Melee, Brawl+, or Project M it's way more balanced than SSBB.

Learning frame data is what separates high level from casual play. Knowing what you can and can't punish. It's also a part of footsies when you not only know your character but you also know your opponent's, that's when things really start to get interesting because you can almost read what your opponent will do at a certain moment and you look like a total badass when you make those reads. I would say if your pressed for time or coming into this game late and you want to be among those high level players, then study the characters you constantly see in tournaments for example; Lao, Kenshi, Cyrax, Sonya, Jax, Kitana etc. it saves time then sitting down and learning CSZ's frame data (sorry CSZ fans).

Once you really understand the concept you'll love armor and XRay and you'll find yourself leveling up much faster. Seriously take A few days and head to the lab and just pick the chars you see in tournaments and just do their strings so you know what they look like and study the active, hit, and block frames to get you started. It will really open your eyes when you watch tournaments on stream, like Final Round, in time you'll be able to read the minds of the players you see onscreen playing.

I know it sounds weird but when I watch players like Tyrant or Dark, I can see what they are going to do right when it happens because we all play Jax and that's partly because of understanding frame data, once you start getting to that point consider yourself a threat in the community. Or at least in my mind

 

[Pakman]

The only example where I would consider frame data as helpful is if for example Johnny Cage had a simple string of 1, 1, 2 and I was playing Smoke and I knew that after his 1, 1 there is a short period of time where I can attack him, before he is able to use his 2, but uhm - I don't know what I'm talking about. Sorry!

I'll try and translate the numerical information into something a little more understandable.

Here's a few things knowing the frame data can help you with:

A) Can I interrupt this move on start up? If my opponent's standing punch is 10 frame start up, and mine is 8 (or less than 10), the answer is yes. In an actual match what that means is, he has to be afraid of my standing attack because it is active faster. I can pressure him with my stand punch (literally just spam this in his face), if he tries to retaliate he'll get hit. His only answer is to block it, or whiff punish (i.e. he's outside the range of my standing attack and hits me as soon as it finishes - that's called whiff punishing).

B) Can I punish his move on block? If his jumping attack is plus 15 on block, then that means he recovers faster than I do after landing it (and I am in block stun for 15 frames). Thus, I cannot punish it and he most likely can follow up (thus allowing him to combo and continue offensive pressure).

But if his move is minus 15 on block, that means after blocking the attack, I recover faster than he does (he is now in recovery for 15 frames), so I can punish with something that has less than 15 frame start up.

Generally speaking, you want to find your character's fastest start up moves and of those, whichever leaves you at a greater advantage as these will be your main pressure tools or ''buttons'' that you can readily press and use to create an offensive. E.g. A move with 5 frame start up, plus 10 frame advantage on block is a better pressure tool than a move with 10 frame start up and minus 6 frame disadvantage on block.

But what about moves with disadvantage on block? These aren't used to pressure your opponent, but to build damage instead. Usually these moves have higher damage ratings, so are often used as combo fillers or enders providing you with decent damage.

p.s: The frames used are obviously for examples only but I think you get the picture

 

[zaf]

Lol believe it or not SSBM is the reason I've been able to adapt to different kinds of fighting games because of the complexity. I played at pretty high level back in my days. It helps you learn what you commonly see in fighters and what you don't. I'm a big fan of Melee, Brawl+, or Project M it's way more balanced than SSBB.

B+ was my favorite. Im currently playing project m. And i agree with everything ya said

 

[Dizzy]

Killzone

Frame data are answers to questions that you are not asking.

If you say "what does frame data mean?" you are asking for an answer you cannot comprehend because the appropriate questions have not already been asked. Frame data as an abstract idea will be incomprehensible to you until you understand how it is applied.

When you get into Injustice and say "why can't I escape this trap?" or "why do I always lose in this situation?" the answers will be there for you in frame data. That is when you can start to understand it.

Basically, take it slow. This isn't a "Basic Gameplay Topic" this would be better suited for Advanced. Learn the basics before you bother with frame data or you'll just be confusing yourself.

 

[Treadmill]

Killzone

Frame data are answers to questions that you are not asking.

If you say "what does frame data mean?" you are asking for an answer you cannot comprehend because the appropriate questions have not already been asked. Frame data as an abstract idea will be incomprehensible to you until you understand how it is applied.

When you get into Injustice and say "why can't I escape this trap?" or "why do I always lose in this situation?" the answers will be there for you in frame data. That is when you can start to understand it.

Basically, take it slow. This isn't a "Basic Gameplay Topic" this would be better suited for Advanced. Learn the basics before you bother with frame data or you'll just be confusing yourself.

100% accurate. Learn the combos, spacing, punishes, game mechanics then as dizzy said you'll understand what questions to ask, then you'll see the answer in frame dat.


This is very kung fu movie. Love it.