EX Shadow Kick is broke

[Bildslash]

This needs to be tweeted to Paulo Garcia, ASAP. They need to hotfix this pronto.

Sending him the link to the video would do wonders.

 

[Shadowfire]

And all of that requires him to actually get in, which is even harder to do with the dash nerf. Meanwhile a character like Kabal can do all of that, has a much better armored move for getting in when he needs to, and also happens to be one of the best zoners in the game.

I disagree. Kabal is definitely one of the best zoners, but I'm not sure he has an easier time getting in if the opponent is scouting the Nomad Dash (and they should be). More importantly, JC has amazing frame traps with huge variety, an overhead that leads to full combo, an AA that leads to full combo, and a universal parry X-ray that leads to over 50%. Both are equally good at preventing wakeups, but Cage has far superior universal normals.

Kabal is better at the one kind of pressure he does, but Cage has something for every situation and matchup once he's inside. He has better anti-jumps, anti-pokes, and mixups for a third of the effort.

Also it only takes one EX Forceball, or one Shadow Kick into the corner, or one AA of any kind for Cage to get inside.

 

[Wildabeast]

I disagree. Kabal is definitely one of the best zoners, but I'm not sure he has an easier time getting in if the opponent is scouting the Nomad Dash (and they should be). More importantly, JC has amazing frame traps with huge variety, an overhead that leads to full combo, an AA that leads to full combo, and a universal parry X-ray that leads to over 50%. Both are equally good at preventing wakeups, but Cage has far superior universal normals.

Kabal is better at the one kind of pressure he does, but Cage has something for every situation and matchup once he's inside. He has better anti-jumps, anti-pokes, and mixups for a third of the effort.

Also it only takes one EX Forceball, or one Shadow Kick into the corner, or one AA of any kind for Cage to get inside.

I never said Nomad dash made it easier to get in, i just said it's a better move. Ex Shadow Kick knocks the opponent down and pushes them out of pressure distance so its really only helpful in the corner, Nomad dash can be faked out and on hit gives Kabal a combo. Not that it matters anyway because Kabal rarely NEEDS to get in like Cage does.

Better AA? Nomad dash and IAF are both AAs that lead to combos.

Ex Forceball is only going to help you get in if youre already close and who in their right mind is going to jump at Cage?

 

[Dizzy]

This needs to be tweeted to Paulo Garcia, ASAP. They need to hotfix this pronto.

Sending him the link to the video would do wonders.

Probably working as intended. He knows about it atleast, so if its a bug it will be fixed, if not it wont.

 

[Dizzy]

I think everyone can agree kabal is a more well rounded and overall "better" character. Comparing him to JC is kind of pointless.

However, I really would not mind if shadow kick and/or ex shadow kick caused a knockdown close to jc for better wake up pressure. Knocking full screen can be a huge pain as being upclose if the only place you want to be.

I'm kind of also confused why they don't make normal shadowkick mid. All other advancing specials are either mid and very unsafe (raiden superman) or high and safe (nightwolf shoulder). Shadowkick got the worse of both worlds for some reason by being high and very unsafe. Either way, not a change I'm banking on just thought it was kind of odd that regular shadow kick was like that.

 

[Shadowfire]

I never said Nomad dash made it easier to get in, i just said it's a better move.

No I understand, I was just comparing playstyles.

Better AA? Nomad dash and IAF are both AAs that lead to combos.

AA as in "I'm crossing you up or jumping away from your pokes right now". I know Kabal's moves will work in all the same situations, but Cage's will more reliably and with less reaction time/specific context required. I still don't see many top level games where IAF actually leads to combos, for example.

Ex Forceball is only going to help you get in if youre already close and who in their right mind is going to jump at Cage?

Having AA so good that no one will even try jumping at you is a positive, I'd say.

EX Forceball gets you one free dash then a guess on another, plus some nice chip. If you manage to get them frightened of a random Shadow Kick then they might just block and voila, you're inside.

I'm kind of also confused why they don't make normal shadowkick mid. All other advancing specials are either mid and very unsafe (raiden superman) or high and safe (nightwolf shoulder). Shadowkick got the worse of both worlds for some reason by being high and very unsafe. Either way, not a change I'm banking on just thought it was kind of odd that regular shadow kick was like that.

I agree that a shadow kick spaced so that the very tip of it nudges the opponent's guard should be safe. I think that might be about the only thing that Cage needs right now, except perhaps removing f+2.

 

[Name v.5.0]

This has happen to me alot when fighting my friend s JC, Every time i knock him down, i followed with sub's D4 and the ex flash kick will go through me without getting me or he receiving no damage. Is this only happening to JC cause i can swear this happen as well with Nw Ex Shoulder 0_o?

Weird shit like this happens all the time. Just yesterday I EX-Shadow Kicked a Noob from sweep range just as he EX-Shadow tackled me. I went through him and came out the other side, and then SOMEHOW got tackled by his shadow on the other side of him. How the hell does that work?

 

[Meshell]

I dont know what the big deal is, its the same as before besides at fullscreen and now is pretty invincible on his start-up wake-up. I think Ex-SK is a check rather than a way for him to get in. His other specials are still pretty beasty. Flip kick is one of the best wake-ups in the game, Ex-shadowball leaves you at neutral(or advantage?) on block to start up or keep pressure, and nut punch leaves them in a reset from an AA and almost every combo he has. Xray is the ultimate parry which you can end in a reset and hit for 50% plus the forced chip after reset.

If SK was safe on block that would be really cheap. Ex-SK would be a mid,safe, and armored, no zoner would stand a chance against him. Come on now they can't make all of Cage's moves safe on block.

As far as NRS hating Cage the change was universal so I think its safe to assume that NRS hates every character besides baraka.

 

[leek]

I dont know what the big deal is, its the same as before besides at fullscreen and now is pretty invincible on his start-up wake-up. I think Ex-SK is a check rather than a way for him to get in. His other specials are still pretty beasty. Flip kick is one of the best wake-ups in the game, Ex-shadowball leaves you at neutral(or advantage?) on block to start up or keep pressure, and nut punch leaves them in a reset from an AA and almost every combo he has. Xray is the ultimate parry which you can end in a reset and hit for 50% plus the forced chip after reset.

If SK was safe on block that would be really cheap. Ex-SK would be a mid,safe, and armored, no zoner would stand a chance against him. Come on now they can't make all of Cage's moves safe on block.

As far as NRS hating Cage the change was universal so I think its safe to assume that NRS hates every character besides baraka.

It's not the same as before. It loses armor around 1/4 and completely at 3/4. It didn't do this before.

EDIT: I just wish it was like it was pre-patch. I don't want it safe on block, I don't want it to knock down closer(I mean it would be great but.. obviously that won't happen.), I just want full armor back :/

 

[evansgambit]

I'm agreeing with some of you here.

Any move that has armour shouldn't be safe on block, because with that armour your ploughing through attacks.

If the knockdown on the En Shadow Kick kept the opponent close, that would be too good. As a) it has armour, b) it cover's great distance - translating, in an almost effortless way to get in. All that from one one good guess or reaction, seems unfair to the opponent.

As for the losing of armour towards the end, kind of makes things interesting. It's not like Cage gets a full combo or gains an immediate advantage from En Shadow Kick. Guess it translates to less careless or mindless armour ploughing.

 

[Shadowfire]

People are making out as though EX Shadow Kick was getting abused pre-patch. Some Cage players were advising people to basically never use it, even.

 

[Name v.5.0]

People are making out as though EX Shadow Kick was getting abused pre-patch. Some Cage players were advising people to basically never use it, even.

This is pretty much the whole point here. You should NEVER just throw it out. It's incredibly situational. The big problem is that now I cant bait a projectile attack and then use my Red Kick without some random shit knocking me out. I cant tell you how many times red kick has saved my ass or won a round. You may only throw it out once a round, but it's usually necessary. So now when I'm getting zoned and I have 15 health, and my opponent has 10 health, I cant do my damn red kick without wondering if its going to fail me (story below). It's bullshit.


I wish I had taken video...2 nights ago I was playing a Sub Zero who was spamming ice balls at me. Both of us incredibly low on health. I wait for the ice ball animation and tap in my ex shadow kick, but OH NO!!!! I'm frozen, I'm combo'd, I'm fucking dead.

 

[Meshell]

shoulda ex-shaowbal ftw instead

 

[GNG Iniquity]

I think that might be about the only thing that Cage needs right now, except perhaps removing f+2.

I don't accidentally hit F2 very often, but I agree. I'll never nor will ever find a use for this...should just be omitted from his move list. I don't see why shadow kick is the way it is; why Jax was awarded a fast recovering special that puts the opponent next to him while Cage has a risky bugged out special that propels the opponent across the damn screen, where Cage can't do much of anything, is beyond me.

IF shadow kick was similar to dash punch, JC would be a significantly better character. I don't particularly like Jax that much, but he's the only rushdown viable option in high level play these days; JC's a fine pocket character but he shadows Jax now. Somehow, Jax is even a better zoner.

Any move that has armour shouldn't be safe on block, because with that armour your ploughing through attacks.

If the knockdown on the En Shadow Kick kept the opponent close, that would be too good. As a) it has armour, b) it cover's great distance - translating, in an almost effortless way to get in. All that from one one good guess or reaction, seems unfair to the opponent.

I take it you're not a fan of Jax, then?

 

[PimpUigi]

It's basically true.
They should fix Cage's Kick and dash cancelling, and then he'll be good enough IMHO.
I'd say they should just remove F2, but then noobs would be able to play Cage easy all day.

We didn't see those two things coming when we knew F3,2 wasn't going to cancel into cunt cracker anymore.

 

[Wildabeast]

People are making out as though EX Shadow Kick was getting abused pre-patch. Some Cage players were advising people to basically never use it, even.

It had its uses, in the Sub Zero match up for example. Life leads are everything in that match up so you gotta do everything you can to get it.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

They should fix Cage's Kick and dash cancelling, and then he'll be good enough IMHO.

Well, the block dashing isn't going to be changed. Personally I've adjusted to it, and it doesn't really bother me anymore. Shadow kick should emulate Jax's dash punch in some regard though. It'd be nice if it hit mid, and perhaps the EX version could kick the character in the stomach and put them in a reset; but that'd require changing the move dramatically which we won't see until UMK9/MK10. Maybe being able to cancel nut punch would be cool, too.

His fireball not being a giant piece of crap could be cool, too. Still baffles me that Jax can actually zone.

 

[Playpal]

ex shadow kick does hit mid, unless you were talking about jax' dash punch or the non enhanced shadow kick.

 

[GNG Iniquity]

ex shadow kick does hit mid, unless you were talking about jax' dash punch or the non enhanced shadow kick.

Does it now? Huh.

 

[Dat Al]

Furthermore, on a similar note, had something else happen to me tonight that I`m sure has been mentioned before, I believe it could be chalked up to the input bug or some other non-sense . Had 2 bars going into a forceball trap, did f33 ex fb, and instead a regular forceball came out and I lost a bar of meter. Needless to say, many what the f**ks were shouted.

 

[joe250]

I was playing today and in a couple of matches just got straight up punched out of my EX Shadow Kick...WTF WHERE'S MY ARMOR???

I did a little testing on this. It seems to happen inconsistently and maybe even randomly. I really dont know. Anyone have any info on this bug?

Johnny cage only has armor for the first few start up frames, not the whole animation

 

[PimpUigi]

Which is why it's broken.
It used to have armor until hit. There's no change in the patch notes. Therefore it's a bug.

Also, dash cancelling has been remedied by utilizing just frame blocking to cancel a dash and allow you to redash/jump/duck/etc. with similar to the old timing.
The old way it still much more preferable, and NRS should still fix it so that it's the original way.

 

[Trini_Bwoi]

Which is why it's broken.
It used to have armor until hit. There's no change in the patch notes. Therefore it's a bug.

that's terrible logic. there are several changes not in the patch notes.

 

[Havatchu]

So what is the better red (Enhanced) option on wakeup now? Red ball or red flipkick?

If they have quite a bit of health left I would opt for red ball then get in a combo. On the other hand if they only have a little life left it would be better to red flip kick to finish them off.

Thoughts?

 

[Name v.5.0]

So what is the better red (Enhanced) option on wakeup now? Red ball or red flipkick?

If they have quite a bit of health left I would opt for red ball then get in a combo. On the other hand if they only have a little life left it would be better to red flip kick to finish them off.

Thoughts?

Red ball? Do you mean EH-Green Ball? If so, you may be right. If they are within jump distance it might be smart to wake up with it and then rush in for pressure. If they jump before you get it off it could be trouble. You might eat full combo. It may be beneficial to wake up with EH-Nut Punch.