Evolution of the MK franchise.

[Hitoshura]

Okay, so I'm not part of this community, due to reasons that I went through when playing MK9 at a competitive level, however, MK X has sort of sparked my interests in playing competitive fighting games again. So, I wanted to take some time and make a thread discussing the evolution of the MK franchise. Not from the very beginning, but what the series can become if it decides to make changes to how it performs.

Now, I'm no expert on fighting games, but I do recognize when things are done and become a gimmick, rather than a good idea. I honestly believe the block button, and the run button need to go from this series. Now, we're not sure if MK X will have a run button, but it shouldn't. Both buttons do not need to be in this game at all. Now this is where the flame war will begin. This is were a large portion, about 95% of MK fans, will start an insult war via the internet with me just because of my beliefs.

I honestly believe that having a mechanics from previous games, which is obviously dated, and/or doesn't work does not make it a game good, or play well. It's like relying on nostalgia in order to sell a game. It just doesn't work. I was never a fan of the block button, seeing how MK9 was a 2D fighting game, I saw no purpose in having it, but the developers wanted to keep it in. Probably to give it that old school MK feel that the previous games had, however, it eliminates the depth of crossovers from the game. In Injustice, NRS added back to block, which gave the game more depth than MK9 due to the inclusion of crossups. This gave the game more strategy when playing against your opponent. Now, I know what the rebuttal to this will be, and it will sound like this, "BUT SOUL CALIBUR HAS A BLOCK BUTTON!!!". Yes, yes it does, however, Soul Calibur is a 3D fighting game. You ever try jumping over someones body in a 3D fighting game? Can't be done. There are no crossups. Jumping in Souls Calibur, or most 3D fighters is just short hoping. So, having a button to block doesn't matter. There is so much to gain for having back to block in the MK series. If done properly, this series will have the potential to doo doo butter all over a lot of 2D fighters, but the block button is holding it back.

Now, for the run button. Anyone who thinks having a button to run in a fighting games needs to seek immediate help. I'm sorry, a button in order to run is just lazy, clunky, and a gimmick. Why not double tap forward to run, like in Injustice, or any other fighter? Double tapping to run makes things a bit more complex in terms of difficulty, but not by much, and it saves the amount of buttons needed to play a fighting games. I know people want the wave dash for footsies like in MK9, but you can still have that. Have double tap forward, or back as a dash, and have double tap+hold forward, or back as the run animation. It can be done.

Now, I understand that MK had these things in the past in order to differentiate itself from other fighters, but the idea is asinine. You're trying to be different by taking the universal mechanics of a fighter and relocating it to a set of buttons, which in my personal opinion is lazy and trying way too hard to be different. The MK franchise was already different from other fighters in terms of character designs and ambiance. The series almost felt like an old school kung-fu film in terms of pacing, character back story, the whole concept of a martial arts tournament, et cetera. It had a gritty feel to it. Now, take that and compare it to Street Fighter. Street Fighter had more of an up-beat feel to it with it's visuals, music, and the character designs, which were less gritty and more lighthearted. Anyone with half a brain could tell the difference between the two games. They both felt completely different from one another.

With ambiance and design alone a game can separate itself from other games of the same genre. The MK franchise has been doing this since the very first game. There is no need for it to add, or do anything else. I hope they decide to go for a more traditional fighting game mechanical layout. I'd love to see this series evolve.

 

[Skellington]

I honestly believe that having a mechanics from previous games, which is obviously dated, and/or doesn't work does not make it a game good, or play well. It's like relying on nostalgia in order to sell a game. It just doesn't work. I was never a fan of the block button, seeing how MK9 was a 2D fighting game, I saw no purpose in having it, but the developers wanted to keep it in. Probably to give it that old school MK feel that the previous games had, however, it eliminates the depth of crossovers from the game. In Injustice, NRS added back to block, which gave the game more depth than MK9 due to the inclusion of crossups. This gave the game more strategy when playing against your opponent.

I stopped reading as soon as I read this. shaking my head

 

[Plejcina]

if they remove the block button i wont play it

 

[EarlyReflections]

Block Button - Yes
Run Button - No

 

[Hitoshura]

I stopped reading as soon as I read this. shaking my head

That's unfortunate. Crossups are a mechanics that add a small amount of depth to a game. Not having it in a 2D fighters removes how in-depth it can go, unless other mechanics are added in. I understand that everyone may not agree with me, especially you. That's fine, but you can't disagree that removing the block button and adding crossups will add depth to the game.

 

[SHAOLIN]

As you can see @Hitoshura the first three didn't give you time or day and pass on your in-depth discussion on the cons of Block and Run button.You have every right to not be part of this community.....with that being said let the Flaming War commence!

 

[EndofGameBoss]

Honestly I can go either way. I prefer games to be back to block, but it's something MK has had since the very beginning and I doubt they'll change that. I do agree about cross ups though. Cross ups in MK weren't actual cross ups and neither is it in Injustice. You can just hold down.

 

[PhilAuto]

I want block button and running personally. I want there to be cool ass counterattacks like in that trailer.
I don't think back to block makes a game more in depth. Back to block is really just a sort of tradition with fighting games. Some would argue that THAT is dated. Why would you need to be walking away to block an overhead? The block button makes the footsies game of MK unique and it should stay.

 

[PhilAuto]

Honestly I can go either way. I prefer games to be back to block, but it's something MK has had since the very beginning and I doubt they'll change that. I do agree about cross ups though. Cross ups in MK weren't actual cross ups and neither is it in Injustice. You can just hold down.

Uh, jump ins are overheads bruh. There's hella cross ups in injustice.

 

[Big Pampering]

That's unfortunate. Crossups are a mechanics that add a small amount of depth to a game. Not having it in a 2D fighters removes how in-depth it can go, unless other mechanics are added in. I understand that everyone may not agree with me, especially you. That's fine, but you can't disagree that removing the block button and adding crossups will add depth to the game.

Crossups add depth. But if you follow the same formula that pretty much all 2d fighting games have, youre going to head into the same direction. The depth of MK lies elsewhere.

 

[Eddy Wang]

I'm sorry Hitoshura, i have nothing agaisnt you at all, but i have to disagree with you, most of the time, i see ppl complaining about removing block button from MK is because crossups, and most of the time this are ppl that enjoys jumping, i can see your case is no different.

Yet, i think we had this discussion not too long ago, its set in stone bro, but honestly i wouldn't mind trying.

 

[TomlulsBrady]

Crossups add depth. But if you follow the same formula that pretty much all 2d fighting games have, youre going to head into the same direction. The depth of MK lies elsewhere.

I use to really despise your posts back during the mk9 era when u would suck pl and foxy off od, but man ur literally my favorite poster now a days.

 

[REDRUM]

I do agree about cross ups though. Cross ups in MK weren't actual cross ups and neither is it in Injustice. You can just hold down.

hold down against Batman (j2)and youre dead brah

 

[REDRUM]

MK has crossups tho..... They just aren't ambiguous (or in some cases unblockable) per se. Its just a lot harder to cross someone up with the block button. Doesnt make it right or wrong.

 

[Hitoshura]

I'm sorry Hitoshura, i have nothing agaisnt you at all, but i have to disagree with you, most of the time, i see ppl complaining about removing block button from MK is because crossups, and most of the time this are ppl that enjoys jumping, i can see your case is no different.

Yet, i think we had this discussion not too long ago, its set in stone bro, but honestly i wouldn't mind trying.

That's fine man. Agree to disagree, however, MK9 was very jump friendly and it didn't have any crossups. I just want to see this franchise do other things that can potentially evolve it into something better, or even different. If we continue to make MK games with a block button and everything on block does chip damage, then they will ultimately play the same. It's true that if we add crossups, double tap+hold to run, and back to block that it will be like every other 2D fighting game in terms of mechanics, but the game is different than the other 2D fighting games in terms of feel, ambiance, and design. I can see it working rather well. I just feel the block button also caters to those who don't want to think when they block. All you have to do is hold down+block button to block low, and hold down the block button to block everything else.

If they do keep the block button in then add something new to the game, like a guard meter, or something. You take chip damage when blocking, but pressure strings do end, and you can block as long as you hold the block button. Being defensive needs to be a bit riskier in this series.

 

[Tony at Home]

That's unfortunate. Crossups are a mechanics that add a small amount of depth to a game. Not having it in a 2D fighters removes how in-depth it can go, unless other mechanics are added in. I understand that everyone may not agree with me, especially you. That's fine, but you can't disagree that removing the block button and adding crossups will add depth to the game.

Cross-ups don't necessarily add depth. They definitely add guessing, but not always depth.

One can say the inclusion of a block button allows for pressure to be emphasized over 50/50's.

 

[Hitoshura]

Cross-ups don't necessarily add depth. They definitely add guessing, but not always depth.

Adding a guessing game when pressuring is consider a form of depth. The offensive and defensive game changes at that point and new things need to be done to over come it. More strategy needs to be applied.

 

[VenomX-90]

Remove Block button, wtf so you want ppl to get free hits? fuck that shit.

 

[Tony at Home]

Adding a guessing game when pressuring is consider a form of depth. The offensive and defensive game changes at that point and new things need to be done to over come it. More strategy needs to be applied.

Here's the long answer.

Blocking in MK is easy. It's supposed to be. The difficulty is it's hard to get out of defensive mode once you've started blocking, as it's very easy to jail opponents with offense.

MK is about pressure as opposed to 50/50's. It's about shredding ankles until they block low or their kneecaps are so swolen from the constant bashing of the d4's to their legs they fall over to get hit by your one overhead.

Chip damage is high in this game. Cross-ups don't make it harder to block, but they make it harder to stop blocking. Every time you are crossed up that's one more block string you have to eat. One more tick throw you might have to tech, etc, etc.

And block strings are more difficult to get out of in this game. There's no push block or focus attacks are invincible 3-frame dragon punches. In MK blocking is easy, but once you start blocking the difficulty is in getting out of defensive mode.

To this extent, pokes are very valuable for getting out of pressure. D3's and D1's to be precise. HOWEVER, this increased value means they are more unsafe as a trade-off. Go to a game that has cross-ups like Street Fighter and you will find the quickest moves are often neutral, + or only very slightly - on block. They're also + on hit because they're used to link into combos. However, in MK, they're for the sole purpose of getting out of the game's extremely strong pressure system, which is why you get the seemingly odd anomaly of the fastest pokes like many d3's being - on hit.

 

[AK L0rdoftheFLY]

That's fine man. Agree to disagree, however, MK9 was very jump friendly and it didn't have any crossups. I just want to see this franchise do other things that can potentially evolve it into something better, or even different. If we continue to make MK games with a block button and everything on block does chip damage, then they will ultimately play the same. It's true that if we add crossups, double tap+hold to run, and back to block that it will be like every other 2D fighting game in terms of mechanics, but the game is different than the other 2D fighting games in terms of feel, ambiance, and design. I can see it working rather well. I just feel the block button also caters to those who don't want to think when they block. All you have to do is hold down+block button to block low, and hold down the block button to block everything else.

If they do keep the block button in then add something new to the game, like a guard meter, or something. You take chip damage when blocking, but pressure strings do end, and you can block as long as you hold the block button. Being defensive needs to be a bit riskier in this series.

Overall I like your op but I have a few opinions of my own. BTW I completely agree on the run button concept here...useless mechanic. Replace that with a trait if you got to have another button.

The way that NRS used crossups in Injustice shows that they don't really know (or didn't at the time) about how btb (back to block) worked. Honestly the problem more likely lies in how they outlay their characters hit/hurt boxes. The way you can dash over an opponents body on a hkd in the corner to reverse their wakeup (zod, DD, WW or pressure with f3 (WW, Flash, DS) shows how wonky it is. Little risk high reward.

Street fighter is a better example of how to do it right and even they have some pretty ambiguous crossups. With MK the meta was never supposed to be about crossups. It is more about chip, armor, overhead low 50/50s or plus frames. With Skarlet I would look for ways to make my opponent block and get tons of chip damage and meter. If they decide to hit buttons or jump I can armor or AA. In Injustice, this tactic is not worth it 9 times out of 10. Aquaman, NW, and batman are really the only characters I can think of that can play the chip and meter game. Grundy can do it too but only with swamp gas.

What I am saying is that having an overhead jip that jails into chip, 50/50 or plus frames is what evolves the meta. In Injustice this ambiguous crossup is a flawed mechanic that goes against the "so called" rules of the game imo. Like batgirls bola uppercut crossing up...DD dashing over you for free in the corner. Its kinda stupid and bullshit.

The only thing that would make me want a back to block MK is if that was the only way to remove the meter drain glitch. If they can get rid of that and keep a block button I would prefer that.

 

[Dirtylova]

btb in mk is just suicide, please no..

 

[dotunderscore]

I think the block button allows more depth to the game. It enables canceling of special moves, dashing, buffering and more dynamic characters (e.g. faster teleports).

Back to block basically takes the control away from you of whether your character is walking backwards or blocking.

 

[Decay]

I think a block button adds another layer of depth that b2block doesn't have. And yes, cross-ups are an interesting mechanic but block button enables you to stand your ground defensively without crouching. Also, like others have said, it cancels out your dash. Also, moves like scorpion's teleport which cross you up on the other side are annoying as fuck to block when it's b2block. In injustice, if you hold down back against scorpion and he EX teleports, you get hit because you are holding forward down now. It's dumb for this game

 

[TaffyMeat]

Wow negative thread dude

 

[Big Pampering]

I use to really despise your posts back during the mk9 era when u would suck pl and foxy off od, but man ur literally my favorite poster now a days.

I don't suck up to them, foxy is just a great player and somebody has to stand on the other side when 99% of TYM is crucifying PL. Btw that's pretty rich coming from you(tyrant)