General/Other - Erron Black Erron Black General Discussion Thread

[HeroesNZ]

I know Outlaw is his most damaging, but I actually find Marksman and Gunslinger to be more fun. I think I'm going to stick with these two variations over Outlaw.

Marksman & Outlaw have fairly similar damage, but Marksman takes it by a couple % more here and there.

Gunslinger has poor damage without meter though.

 

[lionheart21]

Marksman does the most damage in the corner, but Outlaw has better range and a superior N.JP due to the Tarkatan Blade , which is why I tend to prefer it over Marksman.

Gunslinger's got its uses, such as using Money Shot to play keep-away and stuff moves like Sub-Zero's Slide, and Standoff Stance to mix things up a bit. Its also the better zoning option since Marksman's rifle specials are too slow, and Outlaw only has Sand Grenade, but for right now, its not as good as the other two variations.

 

[kenzokukien]

Marksman & Outlaw have fairly similar damage, but Marksman takes it by a couple % more here and there.

Gunslinger has poor damage without meter though.

Marksman does the most damage in the corner, but Outlaw has better range and a superior N.JP due to the Tarkatan Blade , which is why I tend to prefer it over Marksman.

Gunslinger's got its uses, such as using Money Shot to play keep-away and stuff moves like Sub-Zero's Slide, and Standoff Stance to mix things up a bit. Its also the better zoning option since Marksman's rifle specials are too slow, and Outlaw only has Sand Grenade, but for right now, its not as good as the other two variations.

Yes, Outlaw has more tools to work with besides the easy damage meterless and it is his best variation from my experience.

I'm going with the other variations because that's how I pictured Erron Black to be gameplay wise. I like the ability to do little damage that adds up over time with the rifle or gun stances. And the ability to zone when needed to is moreso my style. I'm going to get more losses with these two variations, but I enjoy them alot more TBH.

 

[InFlames]

After playing Gunslinger for some time now I'm actually starting to like it. SO 4 is a great spacing tool along with SO 3, the zoning potential in this variation feels better than Marksman for me just because its multi hitting(Barrage is hella slow). Damage is also not that bad, aside from having to use meter for an overhead launcher. SO 2 is bad but it's 2 simultaneous hits so it could be useful for beating fast armored moves. Money Shot is dried feces.

So far for me:
Gunslinger - Spacing
Marksman - Damage
Outlaw - Setups

seems like a good balance

 

[wsj515]

I just thought of something kind of odd. I'm not familiar with Gunslinger, so I might have the numbers wrong, so please correct me if I'm spouting nonsense.

Standoff 3 has 6% chip. Standoff 2 hits for 5%. If the opponent blocks F13 or any other string, and have been conditioned to expect a cancel into Standoff, there's no drawback to jumping forward, right? Assuming they can't punish the gap with a grounded normal If they get hit by Standoff 2 they take 5%, which isn't bad, but we get no followup and if they block Standoff 3 they take 6% chip. Sure, we get to setup Sand Grenades if Standoff 2 hits, but the risk reward is "5% + Sand Grenade chip" versus "full jump-in combo". So, on paper, there's no reason to remain grounded against a cancelled string into Standoff then?

Yep, there are a lot of things you can do once f13xxSOS3 is conditioned, they are pretty much all gimmicks but mind games are mind games right? you can jump over, grab, start a new string, anything you want if you know they are just going to hold block and wait.

 

[Crathen]

After playing Gunslinger for some time now I'm actually starting to like it. SO 4 is a great spacing tool along with SO 3, the zoning potential in this variation feels better than Marksman for me just because its multi hitting(Barrage is hella slow). Damage is also not that bad, aside from having to use meter for an overhead launcher. SO 2 is bad but it's 2 simultaneous hits so it could be useful for beating fast armored moves. Money Shot is dried feces.

So far for me:
Gunslinger - Spacing
Marksman - Damage
Outlaw - Setups

seems like a good balance

I've been using gunslinger more too , it is actually better in some matchups ( looking at you GM Sub Zero ) and you can actually build a little meter from afar without risking a low sand granade wich is nice , the SO moves are all unbreakable. SO 3 is good to break armor wakeups too bad most knockdowns don't allow you to check them without eliminating a wakeupjump , doing SO3 in strings is a risk because 1 it can be jumped 2 punishable w full combo on block , SO 4 seems better but doesn't combo from most strings unless in the corner and it can be punished by a few fast advancing specials.

SO2 is decent AA but yeah only 10% and it takes hella time to recover from it , would've been swag if you could combo w it in the corner , cancelling SO with 1 is a decent mindgame vs some teleport characters.

Moneyshot is whatever , if only it was better on block it could had been better either that or overhead.

 

[Pakman]

What I love most about Erron is that as he retains ~90% of his moveset in all his variations, so your match ups don't change too drastically and at the same time, you aren't "punished" for picking one that you like. All his pressure strings are retained as are his main zoning tools: sand grenade, 3,2 etc. If you need to zone, you can and if you need to pressure, you can irrespective of variation.

I use gunslinger for example, but I can make it work to the point that I actually do not mind the damage loss/potential that I could have gained in say Marksman or the additional rush down capabilities of Outlaw. In this regard Erron actually has one of the best set of variations - you don't really lose any core tool, you only gain useful supplementary ones.

This is how all variations should be imo.

You might not appreciate it just yet, but certain characters actually lose what I consider to be valuable and core gameplay tools depending on which variation they chose; Erron thankfully doesn't.

 

[Kanalratte]

Erron is boss. PERIOD.

 

[wsj515]

What I love most about Erron is that as he retains ~90% of his moveset in all his variations, so your match ups don't change too drastically and at the same time, you aren't "punished" for picking one that you like. All his pressure strings are retained as are his main zoning tools: sand grenade, 3,2 etc. If you need to zone, you can and if you need to pressure, you can irrespective of variation.

I use gunslinger for example, but I can make it work to the point that I actually do not mind the damage loss/potential that I could have gained in say Marksman or the additional rush down capabilities of Outlaw. In this regard Erron actually has one of the best set of variations - you don't really lose any core tool, you only gain useful supplementary ones.

This is how all variations should be imo.

You might not appreciate it just yet, but certain characters actually lose what I consider to be valuable and core gameplay tools depending on which variation they chose; Erron thankfully doesn't.

This is why I can't wait for this game to pan out a little more, I can only imagine how great it will be discussing all our different variation specific matchups in the MU thread.

 

[Captain Oxygen]

21122 builds a lot of meter if the opponent blocks it all.
21122 -> MB Sand Grenade - > 21122 x however many bars you have = a lot of chip, you even build enough for another MB Sand Grenade if you have multiple bars!

 

[MsMiharo]

Yep, there are a lot of things you can do once f13xxSOS3 is conditioned, they are pretty much all gimmicks but mind games are mind games right? you can jump over, grab, start a new string, anything you want if you know they are just going to hold block and wait.

that's really unsafe though.

 

[InFlames]

21122 builds a lot of meter if the opponent blocks it all.
21122 -> MB Sand Grenade - > 21122 x however many bars you have = a lot of chip, you even build enough for another MB Sand Grenade if you have multiple bars!

cant they duck the 2 after blocking sand grenade?

 

[wsj515]

that's really unsafe though.

Most gimmicks are unsafe, that's what makes them gimmicks. Part of fighting games is taking risks, sure you might get blown up every now and again, but if you condition someone in a certain way and then suddenly do something completely unexpected, you can get a big payoff.

for example, once every few games with someone, I'll do a ghetto reset by letting them out of the hit-stun of db4 with outlaw and jump over for a side switch into overhead or low or just go straight into the mixup. As long as you don't do it often, you'd be surprised how much it works.

 

[MsMiharo]

Most gimmicks are unsafe, that's what makes them gimmicks. Part of fighting games is taking risks, sure you might get blown up every now and again, but if you condition someone in a certain way and then suddenly do something completely unexpected, you can get a big payoff.

for example, once every few games with someone, I'll do a ghetto reset by letting them out of the hit-stun of db4 with outlaw and jump over for a side switch into overhead or low or just go straight into the mixup. As long as you don't do it often, you'd be surprised how much it works.

I meant f13 into SOS3

 

[wsj515]

I meant f13 into SOS3

sure but its the same idea - are you going to finish the string and do f132, or cancel into SOS3?

 

[MsMiharo]

sure but its the same idea - are you going to finish the string and do f132, or cancel into SOS3?

they can still armor out of the last hit of sos 3 .___.

 

[The Farmer]

sure but its the same idea - are you going to finish the string and do f132, or cancel into SOS3?

I actually F132 and proceed with zoning setups at distance. F132 is a hard knock down, your free to set up SOS or start sand grenade/ coin toss traps(if your facing someone who likes to jump alot). or you can do some run cancel mix ups, like run cancel at sweep into sos3, or run and rush them with F13, B32 or B33, Run cancel bait with block, etc.

 

[wsj515]

they can still armor out of the last hit of sos 3 .___.

Then don't do it when they have meter. I would throw it out anyway just to see if they know the matchup well enough to punish it, and if they do, then do something else. My point is, with gunslinger, you have to think outside the box and do lots of weird shenanigans especially when you don't have meter. You can take lots of calculated risks just by watching how your opponent reacts to different things.

 

[The Farmer]

Good meter less damage for gunslinger primarily comes out of b32u1, you can follow with fj1 run xx 2112ST or follow with f12 ST. Next would be punishing with 112 run xx 21122ST. Outside of that you need meter for f13. I actually utilize 121 hard knockdown for oki set up if their drained of meter. B12D1 is hard knockdown with low ender that leaves you one step away from f13 or sand tackle their wakeup. Mix in slide and the end of strings, you recover pretty quick into sos for sos 3 or 4 maybe even 2 if you have some clown that repeatably jumps out of wakeup.

 

[MsMiharo]

Then don't do it when they have meter. I would throw it out anyway just to see if they know the matchup well enough to punish it, and if they do, then do something else. My point is, with gunslinger, you have to think outside the box and do lots of weird shenanigans especially when you don't have meter. You can take lots of calculated risks just by watching how your opponent reacts to different things.

Yeah I know, I've played him quite a bit. I prefer f24 for sos3 however. Good range and will punish most reversals.

Also for gunslinger I think f12 tick comes quite in handy after you've established f122/f132

 

[The Farmer]

Yeah I know, I've played him quite a bit. I prefer f24 for sos3 however. Good range and will punish most reversals.

Also for gunslinger I think f12 tick comes quite in handy after you've established f122/f132

I abuse the shit out this lol

 

[MsMiharo]

I abuse the shit out this lol

yeah I tend to not go for combos but just advancing strings in to chip, full screen or caltrops (f24). Caltrops in to sos3 is fun.

 

[A New Angel Is Advent]

Can someone confirm this? I've been ending combos in f24 caltrops and using meaties as the opponent wakes up. If the opponent uses an EX wakeup, the caltrops count as a hit and the meaty hits them second and back to a full combo.

 

[kenzokukien]

What 's sos3?

 

[lionheart21]

What 's sos3?

That's the attack out of Stand-Off Stance where Erron fires his guns at the opponent's legs