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General/Other - Erron Black Erron Black General Discussion Thread

InFlames

dead
is there some sorta timing to it? i cant seem to get the sand on hit, he still goes into the string.
You are inputting the Sand throw too early. Try doing the combo how you would normally do it and memorize the timing. Once it becomes muscle memory add a quick d2 after it, then try it on block. Hope this helps.
 

Kim0z

Noob
Im currently using the outlaw variation, and im really enjoying it, I have a question regarding using that variation against Kitana, what can I do against a Kitana who keeps throwing fans? I find myself only blocking and taking chip dmg from full screen, I tried jumping, but she cought me with her air fans, tried dashing and still got hit, is there a certain strategy for the outlaw variation against heavy zoning?
 

wsj515

This is my billionth life cycle.
Im currently using the outlaw variation, and im really enjoying it, I have a question regarding using that variation against Kitana, what can I do against a Kitana who keeps throwing fans? I find myself only blocking and taking chip dmg from full screen, I tried jumping, but she cought me with her air fans, tried dashing and still got hit, is there a certain strategy for the outlaw variation against heavy zoning?
The only thing you can do is slowly walk forward and crouch below fans without blocking to make them whiff. Once your opponent starts seeing you do this they will wise up and try something different, allowing you to possibly make a read and either jump in, 32 string, or sand grenade. In kitana's case, watch out for that running grab, they will often do that when they see you walking and crouching without blocking.
 

Beach

La mejor playa
So I looked around a little and saw a few explanations about 211/21122 and none of then really helped me. For the time being I'm using F22, Sand Tackle (I've only used outlaw so far) as my combo ender because I can't seem to get 211, sand tackle midscreen (or in the corner for that matter) or 21122, sand tackle to ever connect. He'll do 21 then into sand tackle which misses or 2112 sand tackle which also misses. How are you supposed to do the inputs to get the proper string then sand tackle to come out?
 

Kanalratte

aka FROSTIE
So I looked around a little and saw a few explanations about 211/21122 and none of then really helped me. For the time being I'm using F22, Sand Tackle (I've only used outlaw so far) as my combo ender because I can't seem to get 211, sand tackle midscreen (or in the corner for that matter) or 21122, sand tackle to ever connect. He'll do 21 then into sand tackle which misses or 2112 sand tackle which also misses. How are you supposed to do the inputs to get the proper string then sand tackle to come out?
yeah same. F22 after jp seems very safe online. if you mess up 211/21122 u will mostly eat a wake-up. it's also only 4% less damage i think. in corner i do F3, 2+4 after jp. also safe.
 

learis1

Guardian Cadet
So I looked around a little and saw a few explanations about 211/21122 and none of then really helped me. For the time being I'm using F22, Sand Tackle (I've only used outlaw so far) as my combo ender because I can't seem to get 211, sand tackle midscreen (or in the corner for that matter) or 21122, sand tackle to ever connect. He'll do 21 then into sand tackle which misses or 2112 sand tackle which also misses. How are you supposed to do the inputs to get the proper string then sand tackle to come out?
You have to think of 11 and 22 literally as single inputs that have to be quickly tapped or else the string won't work. So it's basically 2, immediately double tap 11, then you have a little window while the first punches connect to quickly double tap 22. This is a very strict string so screwing up the inputs will cause it to fail. It's a muscle memory thing. It's an excellent string though because it's his highest damage string that he can combo from.

I only cancel into his slide after the string because it's easier to input than his sand tackle in the short time frame so I can't help you with that.

Edit: Sorry, it looks like you already know the strings timing but your issue is when is the right time to cancel into sand tackle to allow the full string to connect. I've never had trouble with cancelling into slide with the full string connecting, so maybe try that first to see what the timing is then you can move on to sand tackle.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
So I looked around a little and saw a few explanations about 211/21122 and none of then really helped me. For the time being I'm using F22, Sand Tackle (I've only used outlaw so far) as my combo ender because I can't seem to get 211, sand tackle midscreen (or in the corner for that matter) or 21122, sand tackle to ever connect. He'll do 21 then into sand tackle which misses or 2112 sand tackle which also misses. How are you supposed to do the inputs to get the proper string then sand tackle to come out?
Don't hit them all at once. It's a timing thing. Input the full 211 string (for instance) then after you see the second punch start, input the command grab. 211 and 21122 are weird in that you can't ever just do 21 or 2112 because you HAVE to do both inputs for the second and third parts of the string, BUT you can still cancel on any hit of the string, so it just requires more precise timing.
 

Crathen

Death is my business
Don't mash too hard on 21122 , if you input something like 211122 the last 22 won't come out.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
^ That's true too. You cannot add additional inputs in this game, or it will not register subsequent inputs in the string. They have to be done quickly, but precisely. That's actually how a fair amount of the option selects seem to work; somehow additional inputs subsequent to special cancels overload the original input and override the cancel lol.
 
Hello, nice to meet everyone here =^_^=. I've been a fighting game fan for years, with my main game being Soul Calibur. I understand what zoning, spacing, oki, frame data and fighting basics mean. With MKX out, I want to get serious with the game and after trying out many of the characters, I've decided to main erron and maybe use Tanya or another char as a secondary when I get more familiar with the game and EB's moveset.

Any answers to the next few questions would be greatly appreciated.

1. Out of all 3 variations, ik Gunslinger is considered to be the weakest. But what are his main combos for this?

2. Should I adjust any controller presets and buttons? Or leave them as is? For now I changed throw to L2 and block to L1, switch stance to R1, and intereact with R2.

3. Anymore important points I should keep in mind when playing as gunslinger (mainly) and marksman? Or any game mechanics trick? I just recently learned how to break throws X'D

Please and thank you.
 

StevoSuprem0

I'm gonna make this skill gap... disappear.
Hello, nice to meet everyone here =^_^=. I've been a fighting game fan for years, with my main game being Soul Calibur. I understand what zoning, spacing, oki, frame data and fighting basics mean. With MKX out, I want to get serious with the game and after trying out many of the characters, I've decided to main erron and maybe use Tanya or another char as a secondary when I get more familiar with the game and EB's moveset.

Any answers to the next few questions would be greatly appreciated.

1. Out of all 3 variations, ik Gunslinger is considered to be the weakest. But what are his main combos for this?

2. Should I adjust any controller presets and buttons? Or leave them as is? For now I changed throw to L2 and block to L1, switch stance to R1, and intereact with R2.

3. Anymore important points I should keep in mind when playing as gunslinger (mainly) and marksman? Or any game mechanics trick? I just recently learned how to break throws X'D

Please and thank you.
For presets, that's really something you need to feel it for yourself. Personally, I stick with default and that works fine for me.
Game mechanics, look into the option select system. There are some posts discussing how to utilize it well with erron so you aren't getting unsafe moves on block. Both gunslinger and Marksman are decently well rounded, Marksman is simply a bit better at it than gunslinger. Gunslinger can do a lot of damage on chip with 3 out of stand off stance and some things like that. It's zoning is also a bit faster than Marksman, but it doesn't make much difference in practice and certainly doesn't make up for the most meterless damage and corner damage.
There are some gunslinger combos floating around in the other thread, so check that out. You can get decent stuff going off his mixups when you cancel into ex bf3, and meterless I believe you can do ok damage from b32u1, but I haven't messed with it myself so I couldn't tell you.
 

RadicalFuzz

Aspiring Fighter
b32u1 starters net about 24/25% midscreen for no meter, and they apply to all variations, which is nice.

As for game mechanics, an important MK-specific one is you can duck most projectiles so long as you aren't crouch blocking. So if someone's throwing a lot of projectiles fullscreen you can walk forward, duck, walk forward, etc.
 

learis1

Guardian Cadet
1. Out of all 3 variations, ik Gunslinger is considered to be the weakest. But what are his main combos for this?
In gunslinger you have to spend meter to get good dmg off his f1,3 which is his overhead low starter.

So a metered combo would be f1, 3, ex sand grenade, then juggle with 21122 xx slide. That's what I do, not sure if it's the best but it's easy once you get the timing of 21122 down and nets over 30% dmg.
 
Thank you all for the helpful comments! I really appreciate it! (>-^O^-)/ didn't know about the projectile thing for example
I've watched some gameplay and saw Sonicfox really using the 211xx into sand tackle move. This game is certainly much stricter on execution in comparison to Soul Calibur lol. I'll definitely need to stay in the lab for a long time to get down the muscle memory.
 

lionheart21

Its Game Over, Man
Thank you all for the helpful comments! I really appreciate it! (>-^O^-)/ didn't know about the projectile thing for example
I've watched some gameplay and saw Sonicfox really using the 211xx into sand tackle move. This game is certainly much stricter on execution in comparison to Soul Calibur lol. I'll definitely need to stay in the lab for a long time to get down the muscle memory.
One thing to note about that is that it won't work while on the ground since the Sand Tackle will whiff. You can only do that in a juggle.
 

KNX

Mortal
Sup guys, I'm pretty new to Erron, took him online (I know) for the first time last night and ran into a decent Sub that happened to be streaming.

If anyone could point out stuff I might've been neglecting or doing incorrectly, I'd really appreciate it.

http://www.twitch.tv/olo_entsafter/b/655278845?t=01h04m25s

Played him for about 5 games before switching to my current main.
 

Pakman

Lawless Victory!
^^

Welcome to the Wild Wild West! :D

I'd say add some more f1 or 11 strings into your game plan - they are equally essential as Erron's 211 strings and help fill out his main offensive pressure.

Also, sand grenade will eat up non ex slides all day. If you predict one beyond mid screen distance, sand grenade it!

After any uppercut or knockdown that sends him full screen, feel free to drop down caltrops for some meter and continue projectile zoning.

I'd maybe cut back on the Outlaw neutral jump 1s at mid screen - they are indeed excellent for crushing Sub's slide but it can difficult to time correctly at this distance and you risk eating the slide anyway, or worse an ice blast which nets Sub a free combo. Just be a little more conservative with them that's all,

Generally speaking, Erron wins this MU at full screen (smart and tactical usage of sand grenade and 3,2 string regardless of variation really help,), its 50-50 at mid screen with your job being to force him full screen, and heavily in his favor up close.

I covered this in more detail in the MU thread: http://testyourmight.com/threads/reach-for-the-skies-the-erron-black-gameplan-and-mu-thread-updated.49861/ , feel free to check it out and post further MU queries there thanks!
 
Reactions: KNX

RadicalFuzz

Aspiring Fighter
I just thought of something kind of odd. I'm not familiar with Gunslinger, so I might have the numbers wrong, so please correct me if I'm spouting nonsense.

Standoff 3 has 6% chip. Standoff 2 hits for 5%. If the opponent blocks F13 or any other string, and have been conditioned to expect a cancel into Standoff, there's no drawback to jumping forward, right? Assuming they can't punish the gap with a grounded normal If they get hit by Standoff 2 they take 5%, which isn't bad, but we get no followup and if they block Standoff 3 they take 6% chip. Sure, we get to setup Sand Grenades if Standoff 2 hits, but the risk reward is "5% + Sand Grenade chip" versus "full jump-in combo". So, on paper, there's no reason to remain grounded against a cancelled string into Standoff then?

Edit: Standoff 2 does 10% so I'm a dummy who doesn't wear a cool hat
 
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lionheart21

Its Game Over, Man
After checking out the animation of Erron's F1, I was wondering if this could be considered as a viable anti-air. Not really sure about the hitbox
 

Beach

La mejor playa
After checking out the animation of Erron's F1, I was wondering if this could be considered as a viable anti-air. Not really sure about the hitbox
It'll catch them at the intial part of the jump and you can then finish the string into F132 and the 3 will miss but the 2 gun shot will hit. I haven't much success with hitting them at the peak of the jump or coming down as I normally get hit first. If you expect a jump walk backwards and punish with F13~extender, or NJP (A lot more effective in outlaw).
 
I know Outlaw is his most damaging, but I actually find Marksman and Gunslinger to be more fun. I think I'm going to stick with these two variations over Outlaw.