Ermac a Tournament winning worthy character

[1man3letters]

Baraka able to win tournaments? No. He has virtually zero for mixup.

baraka no mix up??? ofl:
i dont even know where to start with that one

 

[Espio]

Any character can win a major, they just need to be in the proper hands.

As for Ermac, he has it all, zoning, resets, levitation mix ups, easy high damaging combos, and his rushdown is very effective too. There's nothing really holding him back. He got nerfed, he's still viable, just more reasonable.

 

[CompletelyJaded]

That's what I heard from people who tried playing him. Could be wrong but I still can't see him beating a Raiden, Ermac, Smoke, Kung Lao in a tournament.
Way to go picking out an example instead of seeing the point of the post by the way.

 

[xenogorgeous]

I'm sick of hearing that "it's only a matter of skill" when some characters have the same advantage without the disadvantages and then even more advantage mounted on them while some characters just get the stick for no reason.
Sindel able to win tournaments? No. Her tools are lacking.
Jade able to win tournaments? No. Her frames are horrendous.
Baraka able to win tournaments? No. He has virtually zero for mixup.

Why? Because these characters are weak.
However, Ermac is up there with Raiden in the list of horribly OP characters.
I main Jade and I get frustrated each time I play an ermac player who has just half the games I do with Jade. I can sit and get blockstringed or not block and get force lifted. All I can choose is which way I'll be beaten: blocking like a bitch or beaten like a hooker.
gg thanks.

Not at all, is just a matter of .... maths. Or "probability law" chances, hehe ....

All you need is , to hit first 3 times, 3 combos with more or less 33% of damage, or , 4 combos with 25% damage, using any character, while your opponent, if you are lucky, has not any combo breaker in those moments

This make all characters having the same chance, hum ?

Both Jade and Ermac can do combos with more than 20% damage ....

hehe

 

[CompletelyJaded]

While Ermac can combo you for 30% and up by just grabbing you, Jade needs to connect a specific move which isn't all that hard to avoid, since her moves are upclose and the worst frame rate. Every move wins advantage over Jade's combo starters in the game currently. People come up with the ExGlow argument here, but then they know full well that all you need to do is jump backwards to have Jade wasted a whole bar on nothing.

 

[Z-911-Z]

In a way, I kinda see Ermac as a lite version of Raiden. A defensive and patient player could get heavy damage from well timed combo strings. It's just that Ermac obviously won't have access to a great teleport to get in or to escape pressure, or a superman attack that carries people to the corner.

 

[xenogorgeous]

While Ermac can combo you for 30% and up by just grabbing you, Jade needs to connect a specific move which isn't all that hard to avoid, since her moves are upclose and the worst frame rate. Every move wins advantage over Jade's combo starters in the game currently. People come up with the ExGlow argument here, but then they know full well that all you need to do is jump backwards to have Jade wasted a whole bar on nothing.

.... this way, looks like that story about Jade being "F" tier, might have some chance to be .... true ?

I don't know, Jade has none 2-8 bad matchup IMO, she is hard to play at high level due some natural disadvantages, but, she looks way underexplored yet ..... hard to tell. :huh:

 

[1man3letters]

That's what I heard from people who tried playing him. Could be wrong but I still can't see him beating a Raiden, Ermac, Smoke, Kung Lao in a tournament.
Way to go picking out an example instead of seeing the point of the post by the way.

yea sorry should of been more productive in my response, just when i seen that was like wtf really?
but of the four you named there only kinda problem imo is radien and that only 4-6, baraka is extremely under rated
now baraka vs kabal, thats what would get him, that match really rough

there is a greek ermac player that is a beast! metoz13 (could be spelling that wrong :wut
watch his tourny vids

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Sindel able to win tournaments? No. Her tools are lacking.
Baraka able to win tournaments? No. He has virtually zero for mixup.

Why? Because these characters are weak.

LOL

Baraka is a nasty character, so is Sindel.

 

[ELC]

I'm sick of hearing that "it's only a matter of skill" when some characters have the same advantage without the disadvantages and then even more advantage mounted on them while some characters just get the stick for no reason.
Sindel able to win tournaments? No. Her tools are lacking.
Jade able to win tournaments? No. Her frames are horrendous.
Baraka able to win tournaments? No. He has virtually zero for mixup.

Why? Because these characters are weak.
However, Ermac is up there with Raiden in the list of horribly OP characters.
I main Jade and I get frustrated each time I play an ermac player who has just half the games I do with Jade. I can sit and get blockstringed or not block and get force lifted. All I can choose is which way I'll be beaten: blocking like a bitch or beaten like a hooker.
gg thanks.

First, I agree that Sindel doesn't exactly have the best tools available (though she certainly has a greater number of viable tools than Raiden, who literally only has Teleport, Superman, and EN Bolt outside of combos), I agree that Jade has very poor frame data, and I agree that Baraka is a bit too reliant on countering the opponent.

However, I disagree with Ermac being as powerful as Raiden. Ermac will crumble under good pressure (which, judging by the three characters you listed, isn't something your mains aren't able to do effectively). Also, a lot of his mix-up is based on a sort of rhythm game, as most of his strings are randomly cancellable into TKS: simply block, learn his pattern, then bait out a TKS or pressure a lapse in his offense.

 

[CompletelyJaded]

a lot of his mix-up is based on a sort of rhythm game, as most of his strings are randomly cancellable into TKS: simply block, learn his pattern, then bait out a TKS or pressure a lapse in his offense.

Could you expand on this in a PM, please?

 

[zaf]

Yes ermac crumbles under pressure but what if you avoid the pressure and counter it?

Ermac isnt like raiden who gets out of pressure, he avoids it at all cost. Ill jump away if someone does a jip. I dont care if I get hit. Ill go to the ground and tech. I prefer this instead of eating the jip and mix up.

Also iafb stops a lot of pressure

Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk

 

[ELC]

Yes ermac crumbles under pressure but what if you avoid the pressure and counter it?

Ermac isnt like raiden who gets out of pressure, he avoids it at all cost. Ill jump away if someone does a jip. I dont care if I get hit. Ill go to the ground and tech. I prefer this instead of eating the jip and mix up.

Also iafb stops a lot of pressure

Sent from my GT-S5830D using Tapatalk

Of course: not saying he doesn't have ways to be proactively defensive (heck TKP and iaFB keeps jump-ins and blind dashes in check). I'm just saying once someone gets in on Ermac, he's done.

Anywho, I believe he has all the tools to overcome his more difficult matchups, and thus has the potential to win a major.

 

[MKF30]

Hey redskept, we played I think last week or something you name looks familiar

Let's play more sometime.

[MENTION=6058]CompletelyJaded[/MENTION], uhh dude you're totally off with that Ermac/Raiden comparison with all due respect. Ermac in the same league as Raiden? uhh no...not even close. And I know this because I use both characters. Like Zaf stated, Raiden can get out of trouble easily with the teleport unless he's being crossovered in the corner, Ermac can't. Raiden has the fastest or one of the fastest moves in the game with superman instantly hitting if not on your guard. Ermac does not have any move nearly that fast...Raiden gives majority of the roster a hard time, Ermac does not.

Ermac is a mid tier/B tier, Raiden is a top tier A tier.

I can go on and on but seriously dude, Ermac is really only a threat in the right hands...the average Ermac player isn't that much of a big deal compared to Raiden who can be far more annoying if someone is just teleporting, grabbing, poking etc. It's not that hard, Ermac you need far more skill to zone and outplay your opponent compared to Raiden.

It just sounds to me like you really hate Ermac because you don't know how to handle/play against him. Believe me, it's very possible. I take on Ermacs all the time with mid tier characters. He's not in the same league as a Raiden, Reptile or KL...not even close.

 

[CompletelyJaded]

[MENTION=325]MKF30[/MENTION]
I can accept that argument, but we're back to the original purpose of my post:

MK sucks because characters are not equal and they might as well just delete everybody else other than Raiden, Reptile and Kung Lao. Or those three because they have unfair advantage.

I say delete because we have seen in countless patches now that they have no fucking idea how to balance it.

 

[MKF30]

Well, there I'd just have to respectfully disagree concerning the balance but you like everyone else are entitled to your opinion. Compared to other fighting games and some previous MK titles, this MK is very balanced overall. There's always going to be that one character in any fighter that "will dominant" or be picked the most because they're more powerful then the other characters. Sometimes too many patches isn't good, but I'd definitely rather have the patch option then not lol.

 

[CompletelyJaded]

Every character should have equal opportunity or there is no point picking anybody else imho.
I'm definitely not wasting money on another mk game unless I see hard evidence that characters are balanced and there are no tiers.

 

[MKF30]

Well, like I said dude. Every fighting game has someone that's more powerful or more easier to win with then everyone else. I've seen it in SF, seen it in MK, Tekken etc, every game...really.

That is your choice, but being as how I've taken on KL's with Sektor and Ermac, I'd say this game is pretty damn balanced. Are some matches a pain in the ass or very against you? Sure, but possible? Yes.

 

[CompletelyJaded]

Highest possible performance Baraka vs highest possible performance Raiden. No mistakes made. Who would win?

 

[Tolkeen]

Highest possible performance Baraka vs highest possible performance Raiden. No mistakes made. Who would win?

It's the same in every game, if you have highest possible skill and no mistakes then one character is going to come out on top, ALWAYS. HOWEVER, people play this game, not machines. People make mistakes and have differing levels of skill, that's what makes the competition exciting. I'm sorry that Jade is bottom tier, but the majority of the cast has a pretty decent shot. If you're so upset about the balance of the game, then take it somewhere where people aren't trying to continue to enjoy the game. Maybe you should write netherrealm studios a letter.

 

[rev0lver]

[MENTION=325]MKF30[/MENTION]
MK sucks because characters are not equal and they might as well just delete everybody else other than Raiden, Reptile and Kung Lao. Or those three because they have unfair advantage.

Lolwut? Raiden, Reptile, and Kung Lao? Raiden's the only real arguable top 5 there.

Last 4 characters to win a major: Kitana, Shang Tsung, Jax, and Kabal.

I'm going to take a guess and say you play online alot. Also lol@ Ermac being OP and Sindel lacking.

 

[Metzos]

That's what I heard from people who tried playing him. Could be wrong but I still can't see him beating a Raiden, Ermac, Smoke, Kung Lao in a tournament.
Way to go picking out an example instead of seeing the point of the post by the way.

Ermac-Baraka MU is 5-5 m8 so i really dont think that is a bad MU for Baraka.


EDIT: But i get what you mean.

 

[CompletelyJaded]

It's the same in every game, if you have highest possible skill and no mistakes then one character is going to come out on top, ALWAYS. HOWEVER, people play this game, not machines. People make mistakes and have differing levels of skill, that's what makes the competition exciting. I'm sorry that Jade is bottom tier, but the majority of the cast has a pretty decent shot. If you're so upset about the balance of the game, then take it somewhere where people aren't trying to continue to enjoy the game. Maybe you should write netherrealm studios a letter.

I tried to contact them about balacing Jade out already because she's criminally shit but no response. I'm willing to bet they want to remove her from the series altogether so they nerfed her below the rug so that nobody would miss her.
You do make a valid point though, I'll stop this discussion unless anybody else wants to continue, elsewhere.
I'm still not buying any more NRS games after this though, and still think that the game is shit.
I'm entitled to my opinion.

Lolwut? Raiden, Reptile, and Kung Lao? Raiden's the only real arguable top 5 there.
Last 4 characters to win a major: Kitana, Shang Tsung, Jax, and Kabal.
I'm going to take a guess and say you play online alot. Also lol@ Ermac being OP and Sindel lacking.

Lolthx. Lolok. Lolyour lolinput is so lolgood. Lol. Lol@ you loling@ my loling @ you loling. Lol.

 

[rev0lver]

Lolthx. Lolok. Lolyour lolinput is so lolgood. Lol. Lol@ you loling@ my loling @ you loling. Lol.

Excellent rebuttal. Your ability to listen to logic is astounding.

 

[ELC]

Lolwut? Raiden, Reptile, and Kung Lao? Raiden's the only real arguable top 5 there.

Last 4 characters to win a major: Kitana, Shang Tsung, Jax, and Kabal.

I'm going to take a guess and say you play online alot. Also lol@ Ermac being OP and Sindel lacking.

Since when has placement in tournaments been a viable criteria for placement on a tier list? Not arguing about your conclusion, just your methods of obtaining it.