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Match-up Discussion Ermac 10-0s the MU charts

SunnyD

24 Low Hat!
Wth is wrong with these threads ? Back on topic Ermac IS solid and i ve been saying that since i joined this community. Detroit just showed a fraction of what Ermac can do and if he continues playing him you guys will see what i have been saying for about 10 months now. The Ermac community knew what this character is capable of a long time now... Everyone else didnt though.
1. Come to EVO
2. Dominate all the competiton
3. ???
4. Ermac bandwagon begins.
 

miloPKL

soundcloud.com/pukelization
yes its of the highest importance that we decide where he is, because... wait, no it isn't
 

Skkra

PSN: Skkra
In the past, I believed that this game was incredibly balanced... maybe the most balanced game out right now. Now, I think that it is mostly balanced: there are a few characters who seem very lacking in comparison to the rest of the cast. Kabal has every tool in the world... characters who could really benefit from armor don't have it, while characters who would be totally fine without it have multiple armored moves?... risk/reward is completely wrong for some moves (for example, Sonya's EX cartwheel should absolutely be unsafe, its a frigging armored jugglestarter).

All of that said, I could care less what Ermac's tier placement is. The important part is, Ermac is NOT one of those characters in this game that lacks the tools necessary to compete with the entire cast. Fuck all this nonstop goddamn noise about matchups and tiers that this community is OBSESSED with far beyond what I've seen from ANY other community in my 10+ years of playing competitive fighting games.

IT IS ABOUT THE PLAYERS. I feel that Tom Brady's performance with Sub recently has proved that if you're loyal to your character, stay solid, and learn your matchups, you can beat anyone. I think it's safe to say that Metzos is very likely the best Ermac in the world, and Metzos says that Ermac can hold his own in MK9. Done deal.
 

CamRac

Noob
In the past, I believed that this game was incredibly balanced... maybe the most balanced game out right now. Now, I think that it is mostly balanced: there are a few characters who seem very lacking in comparison to the rest of the cast. Kabal has every tool in the world... characters who could really benefit from armor don't have it, while characters who would be totally fine without it have multiple armored moves?... risk/reward is completely wrong for some moves (for example, Sonya's EX cartwheel should absolutely be unsafe, its a frigging armored jugglestarter).

All of that said, I could care less what Ermac's tier placement is. The important part is, Ermac is NOT one of those characters in this game that lacks the tools necessary to compete with the entire cast. Fuck all this nonstop goddamn noise about matchups and tiers that this community is OBSESSED with far beyond what I've seen from ANY other community in my 10+ years of playing competitive fighting games.

IT IS ABOUT THE PLAYERS. I feel that Tom Brady's performance with Sub recently has proved that if you're loyal to your character, stay solid, and learn your matchups, you can beat anyone. I think it's safe to say that Metzos is very likely the best Ermac in the world, and Metzos says that Ermac can hold his own in MK9. Done deal.
I definitely agree on the balance point, because let's be honest: MK is full of random shit that doesn't make any sense. And yet, we still love it. So yeah, it's going to have strange balancing decisions, but it's honestly way more balanced than a bunch of FGs currently on the market.

And seriously, I still want to know what the argument behind Ermac having a steep learning curve is lol. I got into the game only recently, but I remember the "Easy-Mac" flavor-of-the-week period that happened awhile back. Hard to believe he's really hard to learn now, but I guess patches can do anything...
 

Matix218

Get over here!
I definitely agree on the balance point, because let's be honest: MK is full of random shit that doesn't make any sense. And yet, we still love it. So yeah, it's going to have strange balancing decisions, but it's honestly way more balanced than a bunch of FGs currently on the market.

And seriously, I still want to know what the argument behind Ermac having a steep learning curve is lol. I got into the game only recently, but I remember the "Easy-Mac" flavor-of-the-week period that happened awhile back. Hard to believe he's really hard to learn now, but I guess patches can do anything...
I think back in the days where he was being called "easy Mac" was before the footsies and spacing game had developed (and also before game changing patches which added armor to several characters). I think the "easy" just refered to the ease in execution to perform very damaging combos (which all got increased damage scaling in susbsequent patches). I don't think ermac is easy to play at a high level against top level opponents, the easy really just was talking about easy combos with high % dmg
 

lazybird123

Purple Belt in BJJ, White Belt in MK
I mained Ermac for like a week

If Metzos is the best Ermac, I honestly think I'm the worst Ermac on earth, if anyone wants to challenge me for that title hit me up on PSN :(
 

CamRac

Noob
I think back in the days where he was being called "easy Mac" was before the footsies and spacing game had developed (and also before game changing patches which added armor to several characters). I think the "easy" just refered to the ease in execution to perform very damaging combos (which all got increased damage scaling in susbsequent patches). I don't think ermac is easy to play at a high level against top level opponents, the easy really just was talking about easy combos with high % dmg
Ah, okay. Are his combos still considered easy? I've only really learned combos for Ermac, Raiden, and Kenshi, but so far, none of them seem to be especially hard to execute.
 

Matix218

Get over here!
Ah, okay. Are his combos still considered easy? I've only really learned combos for Ermac, Raiden, and Kenshi, but so far, none of them seem to be especially hard to execute.
Yeah I would imagine they are considered easy to execute. I play smoke, sub, ermac and occasionally noob and none of their bnb combos are very difficult to execute. I imagine the harder to execute characters combo wise are the ones that have cancels and really precise windows to link moves and none of my characters fit that bill
 

Skkra

PSN: Skkra
Ah, okay. Are his combos still considered easy? I've only really learned combos for Ermac, Raiden, and Kenshi, but so far, none of them seem to be especially hard to execute.
There are very few characters in this game with hard execution requirements. If you've played any other fighting game, you'll probably find the bread-and-butter combos for almost all characters to be very easy in MK9.

In SF4, my Guile B&B has a 1-frame link. In SkullGirls, my Valentine B&B needs instant airdash canceling and a relaunch. In Marvel, my cheap-ass Wesker B&B needs a double OTG relaunch using my assists.

Compared to almost any other fighting game, MK9 B&Bs are easy to pick up.
 

CamRac

Noob
There are very few characters in this game with hard execution requirements. If you've played any other fighting game, you'll probably find the bread-and-butter combos for almost all characters to be very easy in MK9.

In SF4, my Guile B&B has a 1-frame link. In SkullGirls, my Valentine B&B needs instant airdash canceling and a relaunch. In Marvel, my cheap-ass Wesker B&B needs a double OTG relaunch using my assists.

Compared to almost any other fighting game, MK9 B&Bs are easy to pick up.
Ah, yeah, that makes sense/is what I was thinking. Thanks for the confirmation.
 

Flagg

Noob
Yeah, 99% of the bnb's in this game are easy, but I do think playing Kabal and Skarlet at a high level does require a degree of skill and consistency.

There's a massive difference with doing d1 into a string compared to lengthy strings requiring cancels, over and over and over...
 

zaf

professor
Camrac, to answer your question, here is why i think his learning curve is high.

-Ermac old school bnbs are easy as shit. All of his best high damage combos require some extent of execution. Depending on the combo, whether it is off a string, naked lift or an AA, you need to ( on the spot) react to which combo you are to be doing. Also depending on the character you are playing against, whether or not to end the combo with double jk or f4. Now im not saying this is impossible to do, im just saying that there is a lot of thought behind his combos and this is not something you pick up on right away. Also people need to learn double jk combos.

- Understanding how tkp works. Most of the ermacs ( all except metzos,myself and a few others) don't use this move the way it is supposed to be used. Its not like a projectile, it controls space. Try and think of it as a much more punishable d4.

-Walking. No one walks. I see metzos walk, and if you have seen me play, all I do is walk. Walking all the time, in every situation and staying calm is not something people do.

-Patience. With a lot of characters, there is always something you can be or should be doing to make your opponent react and do something. With ermac, i honestly believe patience is important. more then half of my won matches is from punishes and just walking back and forth not doing a thing.

-learning how to use his tools. Iafb, u4, d4, d3, d1, tkp, f4....etc etc etc
Ermac has a move for every situation and because of this it can be hard at times choosing the right one to get you out of a situation.
Knowing when to use his moves is what makes him good. Sure f2 and sweep are frame traps, but when people start getting caught by naked lifts after those traps I see a lot of ermacs failing to decide what to do and how to apply pressure. Learning how to keep his pressure going to vital.

-Non combo execution.
iafb is a bitch to learn to do in every situation that you want to use it in. most of his block strings end differently frame wise and this means adjusting to get iafb as low as possible.
his b2 cancels are execution heavy when you are using them often enough and creating set ups with them.

-reading people.
the majority of ermac damage comes from reads. he has no easy way in. its all spacing, zoning and reading.
and reading someone is not something you can teach, this is something the player has to learn. Because there are a lot of brainless ways to play other characters, playing brainless ermac gets you dead and fast. So adapting and reading are important parts of his game. More so in my opinion then other characters.
 

CamRac

Noob
- Understanding how tkp works. Most of the ermacs ( all except metzos,myself and a few others) don't use this move the way it is supposed to be used. Its not like a projectile, it controls space. Try and think of it as a much more punishable d4.
Actually Zaf, I do have a thought I'd like to add after thinking about it some. I've been talking to a few of my friends in the MK community recently about Ermac not being a zoner at all, but rather something like a long range grappler. His game seems much less dependent on using his regular projectile, and more so dependent on using his tkp and lift as threats to shutdown the opponent's movement. This is the mindset a grappler often has in a game like Street Fighter, where it's not the actual grab that's so good, it's the threat of the grab that limits your opponents options and causes them to take risks or make mistakes out of fear. Ermac's meta-game in this regard more closely resembles Zangief than he does Guile, in my opinion.

Thus, I feel like Ermac is neither rushdown or a zoner, but a long range, telekinetic grappling badass! lol

This is the main cause as to why so many people don't get his unique design and try to play him incorrectly. What do you guys think?
 

Metzos

You will BOW to me!
Actually Zaf, I do have a thought I'd like to add after thinking about it some. I've been talking to a few of my friends in the MK community recently about Ermac not being a zoner at all, but rather something like a long range grappler. His game seems much less dependent on using his regular projectile, and more so dependent on using his tkp and lift as threats to shutdown the opponent's movement. This is the mindset a grappler often has in a game like Street Fighter, where it's not the actual grab that's so good, it's the threat of the grab that limits your opponents options and causes them to take risks or make mistakes out of fear. Ermac's meta-game in this regard more closely resembles Zangief than he does Guile, in my opinion.

Thus, I feel like Ermac is neither rushdown or a zoner, but a long range, telekinetic grappling badass! lol

This is the main cause as to why so many people don't get his unique design and try to play him incorrectly. What do you guys think?
Yeah i can agree to that. His zoning is unique even in the MK universe, let alone many other fighting games i have played. Ermac imo perhaps is the only character in the game who FORCES you to play his game and get used to HIS pace.
 

Kindred

Let Be Be Finale Of Seem
Yeah i can agree to that. His zoning is unique even in the MK universe, let alone many other fighting games i have played. Ermac imo perhaps is the only character in the game who FORCES you to play his game and get used to HIS pace.
beautifully said