General/Other - Ermac [EO Beta] Ermac Beta Thread

[STRYKIE]

I believe Mystic push in the beta right now is -14.
Still does not really make him seem all that scary.... Still feels lacking or underwhelming.
Ex push has pushback and is -1. Also still has armor.

Ex lift does not need armor. It would be broken.

Explain? I suppose it might potentially have extreme damage potential but nothing that NRS can't regulate by adding some damage protection.

EX push allegedly being -1 sounds decent though.

 

[zaf]

Explain? I suppose it might potentially have extreme damage potential but nothing that NRS can't regulate.
EX push allegedly being -1 sounds decent though.

If lift has armor, you cant jump. You cant play neutral.
Like, you dont even need to make reads anymore. Just react.

I was informed that ermac was the best character in the beta of the game ( first ever beta)
It was mainly due to his ex lift having armor, damage potential and air blast to mix up your own jump ins.

 

[fr stack]

i think spectral is ermacs best variation if these changes are accurate

 

[zaf]

i think spectral is ermacs best variation if these changes are accurate

I agree. But mystic still needs testing. If push is really -14, it could be really good.

 

[Addhad]

All I ask is speed up his d4 make his soul burst a little safer for all variations. For mystic make his push a lil safer change his dmg scaling and maybe make his soul burst a lvl 2 soul ball. I don't play spectral so idk and idk about that hover change

 

[zaf]

All I ask is speed up his d4 make his soul burst a little safer for all variations. For mystic make his push a lil safer change his dmg scaling and maybe make his soul burst a lvl 2 soul ball. I don't play spectral so idk and idk about that hover change

I think the D4 is fine. It serves the purpose of one of the best anti airs. It works perfectly as is.
Mystic push is already -14 currently

 

[STRYKIE]

If lift has armor, you cant jump. You cant play neutral.
Like, you dont even need to make reads anymore. Just react.

I was informed that ermac was the best character in the beta of the game ( first ever beta)
It was mainly due to his ex lift having armor, damage potential and air blast to mix up your own jump ins.

But alas, we say this in a game where Kung Lao's EX Spin exists in all variations?

And if Mystic's EX Lift is scouted and blocked, he's still -51, that might legit be enough to punish with a jump in.

I dunno man, with what we now know about the game, and as long as it doesn't exceed, say, 33%, I don't think it would be an isolated issue. I would understand in the context of MK9's meta what the causes for concern would be, but the majority of characters have an armored launcher in at least 1 variation in this game. And with the Mystic EX Lift doing absolutely nothing differently from regular EX Lift at all, all the arrows kinda point at the same thing...

In any case, it needs to do SOMETHING differently.

 

[fr stack]

man, the more i think about it the more excited i get for spectral. we're gonna be able to do some nasty hover shenanigans now that it's going to be consistent

 

[zaf]

But alas, we say this in a game where Kung Lao's EX Spin exists in all variations?

And if Mystic's EX Lift is scouted and blocked, he's still -51, that might legit be enough to punish with a jump in.

I dunno man, with what we now know about the game, and as long as it doesn't exceed, say, 33%, I don't think it would be an isolated issue. I would understand in the context of MK9's meta what the causes for concern would be, but the majority of characters have an armored launcher in at least 1 variation in this game. And with the Mystic EX Lift doing absolutely nothing differently from regular EX Lift at all, all the arrows kinda point at the same thing...

In any case, it needs to do SOMETHING differently.

I don't think we need to look at what other characters have and try to even it out for ermac like that.
I am just looking at what EX lift does overall to the game, instead of just what it does for ermac.
I just see it being impossible to jump on him, space anything properly or even use interactables.

Trust me, ermac is my favorite character and I would love for him to be super strong. I just dont think that is the way to go about it.
He already has a safe armor get off me move. In this game, its either a safe armor move or a unsafe launcher.

Lift is different when he does it normally. That is what makes it different.

I think we need to play around with the new push and ex push in mystic first before we suggest anything else.

 

[Skedar70]

I think push is good for mid distance checks. From -24 to -14 means that it is less likely to get punished. The ex one is now -1 and drains meter looks like a good wakeup tool. He still has his unsafe 50/50. Mmm I think at least mistic is playable. Maybe sort of lame playable.

 

[Skedar70]

Does the change on levitate make canceling from b3 or f4 easier in spectral. I couldn't get it before with DDU. If it does than the variation may be more reliable.

 

[foxdie]

Ex lift does not need armor. It would be broken.

Why would it be broken? EX spin for KL shouldn't have armor + 7 frame startup, EX electrocute for raiden shouldn't have armor, EX sand trap for eb shouldn't have armor... Could go on forever about other characters with ridiculous wake up options that don't need it.

 

[Nivek]

can we teleport(du) too with d-R2??? plzzzzzzz????

 

[STRYKIE]

I don't think we need to look at what other characters have and try to even it out for ermac like that.
I am just looking at what EX lift does overall to the game, instead of just what it does for ermac.
I just see it being impossible to jump on him, space anything properly or even use interactables.

Trust me, ermac is my favorite character and I would love for him to be super strong. I just dont think that is the way to go about it.
He already has a safe armor get off me move. In this game, its either a safe armor move or a unsafe launcher.

Lift is different when he does it normally. That is what makes it different.

I think we need to play around with the new push and ex push in mystic first before we suggest anything else.

I hear you, it's not necessarily about making Mystic amazing though, it's just ensuring that Mystic brings something to the table and would warrant use over the other variations in at least a few matchups. Whether the changes to push alone would do that remains to be seen.

 

[zaf]

Does the change on levitate make canceling from b3 or f4 easier in spectral. I couldn't get it before with DDU. If it does than the variation may be more reliable.

Yes it is a lot easier.

Why would it be broken? EX spin for KL shouldn't have armor + 7 frame startup, EX electrocute for raiden shouldn't have armor, EX sand trap for eb shouldn't have armor... Could go on forever about other characters with ridiculous wake up options that don't need it.

Look at the range that Lift covers. Even compare it to the armor moves you just listed. A move like lift or push should not have launching armor.
If you want lift to have armor, then make it like push and lead to a knockdown. Does not need to launch.

I hear you, it's not necessarily about making Mystic amazing though, it's just ensuring that Mystic brings something to the table and would warrant use over the other variations in at least a few matchups. Whether the changes to push alone would do that remains to be seen.

I can already think of some match ups where I would want to try mystic over the others. I think making ex lift launch and have armor would just make people want to use mystic all the time instead of certain match ups as well.

It is not happening. So I think we should cut the discussion on this a little short. Or at least move it to another thread.
I'd like to discuss what he actually has now, instead of theory fighting here.
Feel free to respond to this post. But I will not reply to the subject of ex lift having armor ( unless it is in another thread of course)

 

[themanDan]

Would like for him to keep his feet on the ground instead of floating but whatever...

I loved ermac in mk9, but this is the reason I never played him in mkx lol.

 

[16 Bit]

@colt there is still an issue with Ermac's B1 being a mid and whiffing on crouching opponents. I hope that will be addressed in the future. On a secondary note, thank you for fixing the whiff issues on his 22 string.

Ermac b+1 is a high but faster than it was before.

 

[STRYKIE]

Yes it is a lot easier.

Look at the range that Lift covers. Even compare it to the armor moves you just listed. A move like lift or push should not have launching armor.
If you want lift to have armor, then make it like push and lead to a knockdown. Does not need to launch.

I can already think of some match ups where I would want to try mystic over the others. I think making ex lift launch and have armor would just make people want to use mystic all the time instead of certain match ups as well.

It is not happening. So I think we should cut the discussion on this a little short. Or at least move it to another thread.
I'd like to discuss what he actually has now, instead of theory fighting here.
Feel free to respond to this post. But I will not reply to the subject of ex lift having armor ( unless it is in another thread of course)

True enough. Spectral was written off very quickly after the August patch, and well, the rest is history. We'll see what happens.

 

[Geoffmeister]

Ermac b+1 is a high but faster than it was before.

Wait, wut?
Ermacs b1 hits some crouching/crouchblocking opponents, for clarification, is this changed to a high now and whiffs on all crouching opponents?

 

[THTB]

Spectral is officially the best variation just because his shit is doable without major practice now. That input change is massive.

Mystic is much better now too.

 

[14K]

Can't properly combo from teleport? Son, do you know what Scorpion players would do to be able to link a spear after a meterless teleport? lol

Kenshi doesn't have the viable mixups that Ermac does in close quarters either with the exception of Kenjutsu, where his ability to "chip people down" is also relinquished.

Mystic's problem is that it's just a hands down worse version of MOS, which is already considered a potentially underwhelming variation with a mid hitting combo starting fireball, giving Mystic a generic fireball ain't gonna change any fortunes.

All Mystic needs IMO, as far as a reason to play it, is less negativity on push (somewhere between -13 to -16), and the Mystic version of EX Lift to have a hit of armor. (cause it damn sure doesn't do anything different currently despite being listed as a "Mystic exclusive move")

With that kind of utility, it wouldn't just be about using push, it's that you have it, makes people apprehensive about what's gonna happen next, and opens up to challenge with other things instead.

So as far as Mystic "needing" a fireball, yeah, something ain't adding up here....

But on the other hand, it's legitimately sad to see NRS beating around the bush with the variation, giving it a purpose would be sooo simple...

lol Son... anyway... the Point of Mystic was always to make you regret getting in on him by chiping at you as you try to do it... it fairs to reason that he would have something that would that, something like oh lets say a Fireball... the fact that he would be able to levitate slam and fireball/air fireball would make ppl have to navigate and get chipped slowing their progress and possibly force a mistake. Theres where TK would come in pushing them back to the starting point... So as is, you Push ppl out and Cassie will just run at you 50/50 your face to death and there you go, your mildly safer TK did nothing to help you other than force her to block once.... There is literally no Reason why Characters like Cassie would not just run at you from full screen, block the possible TK and be in your face without no opposition from you what so ever...

With this being said Yes Fireball would not Make him Amazing, But it would give purpose to the variation Archtype as it is intended... Honestly they should just delete Mystic and give TK to MOS, then we would have the Ermac we deserve....

 

[Ragnarök Tyr]

Ermac b+1 is a high but faster than it was before.

I'll look when I'm able, but wasn't b1 listed as 10 frames before? I remember it showing 11 Frames and is labeled as mid in both the Beta and original game. Could just be a listed error then

 

[16 Bit]

frame data isn't always up to date in beta.

 

[Ragnarök Tyr]

frame data isn't always up to date in beta.

As I suspected. May I ask if anyone has considered adding a fireball to Mystic or tweaking his TK moves a bit more to allow a Kenshi like zoning? Or if you could give your thoughts on how Mystic may be used to properly combat rush down style characters. The inclusion of run makes it difficult to check opponents with TK push or even stomp at times.

 

[Addhad]

Breh his b1 better not be a high his pressure would be ruined