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Tech Easily Adding 12%, 18%, or More + Set-Ups

Great find man. Honestly nothing more frustrating then guessing wrong on a lightning cage when having adam cornered, great tech. Is this character specific at all, or does it work on large hitboxes like doomsday, etc?
 

GGA Max

Well-Known Member
Great find man. Honestly nothing more frustrating then guessing wrong on a lightning cage when having adam cornered, great tech. Is this character specific at all, or does it work on large hitboxes like doomsday, etc?
Yeah, hit boxes generally don't matter except you can scoop them up easier when you hit them with a J3 if they are a big character.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Not bad, I didn't know j.3 did it but that's awesome. I had this list I don't think I ever posted about the 4 kinds of knockdowns, and our splats seems to be getting some good attention. If you feel they will do a grab-immune wake-up you can also sub out the command grab for a MB b/f.3 and it'll relaunch into a similar situation and also stuff the wake-ups. Doing it with the f.3 will cover less options but if blocked will leave you at that hefty +9.

I feel bad because I saw this on your youtube before you posted it. Looking into the future xD
 

GGA Max

Well-Known Member
Good stuff Doom, I want to compare your untechable knockdowns with my list sometime. We can work on the thread together if you want.

What wake-ups are grab immune? Just other grabs right? lol

And yeah you're one of the only Banes going to EVO so hell yeah you deserved it man.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Good stuff Doom, I want to compare your untechable knockdowns with my list sometime. We can work on the thread together if you want.

What wake-ups are grab immune? Just other grabs right? lol

And yeah you're one of the only Banes going to EVO so hell yeah you deserved it man.
Every character has a grab-immune special, the only thing is not all of them have invuln. Namely, batman's batarangs have grab immunity but no invuln while Bane's charge has both. Its character dependant, but pretty much most characters can be universally stuffed by it.

GL in particular has nothing that beats a meaty MB f.3.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Ok so upon further analysis, theres 4 kinds of knockdowns in our arsenal...

1) Fast stands : If you can cancel it into a raging charge and have it hit meaty, its a fast stand. These are our main option selects and they are pretty low in number. To my knowledge, d.2 b.23 and d.2 d.2, and d.2 113 are the only three enders with that kind of ability. We also have some semi-fast stands in normal b.23 however doing the usual b.23 b.23 will not allow for the charge option select.

2) Splat stands : These are your f.3, f.1, and b.21. They cause a fast stand but aren't able to be cancelled into meaty pressure set-ups, and are listed above in the stand speed order. They are also known for causing stagger on block, but are impractical to end combos with unless you can properly set up for them. Due to our slow normals, its actually not advised to use the splat stand outside of corner set-ups into either d.1 or normal throw. With recent news, splat stands can indeed be linked into meaty set-ups but its not easily mix-able with other alternatives outside of what is given.

3) Normal knockdowns : This is pretty much anything else that isn't a hard knockdown. While they may vary in standing speeds, they universally lack an option select to cover both rolls and regular wake-ups from mid-screen. They also allow time for the opponent to wake-up with invulnerability, or tech roll, and although we have answers for both we cannot answer both at the same time.We can, however, set up most of our charge options based on the opponent's reactions (tech rolling will usually be caught by charge) at the risk of missing and letting the opponent wake up for free and putting ourselves in a bad position.

4) Hard Knockdown : This is what we have a small amount of, and its one of our highlights. These are your sweeps, charge, command grab, ring toss, and normal throw. They are untechable but don't provide much advantage, however they give us a reliable set of enders and traps with which we can keep close to our opponents during the oki which is where we are strongest. They do allow the opponent to have wake-up invulnerablity (though the normal throw seems to not give them much buffer time to work with at all), however with the proper bait we can fool them into making huge mistakes.

In the corner, most normal combos will become capable of the charge option select (with an added cross-up) however getting blocked will cause a very disadvantageous situation for us so its best used scarcely.

Heres that list, its on page 68 of the bane council convo. Its nothing new, just a little peek into what they do and our options out of them.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
I am liking it but what are the advantanges of option selecting after B. 23?
Well b.23 d.2 b.23 charge, for example, will make it so the opponent has to block the charge. It looks like it'll whiff, but the fast stand causes them to have to block it immediately. Against an opponent who isn't aware of it, this allows us to sometimes score an easy charge into pressure. Against one that is, it forces them to sacrifice their wake-up attack in order to block and be put into continued pressure.

Basically it keeps us close with a bonus of 16% or so, and regardless of how the opponent reacts (non-rolling or tech roll) it'll connect the same either way.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
How much damage are you losing when you go to this combo instead of say a
26% (no venom) - B2,3 1,2,3xxdb2?
That does 26% without venom?
I think mine does like... 20%? And you get instant pressure.
Trust me, once you are in the corner the sacrifice of damage can be worth the fact that you can link together the f.2.d overhead and whatnot in combination.
 

GGA Max

Well-Known Member
That does 26% without venom?
I think mine does like... 20%? And you get instant pressure.
Trust me, once you are in the corner the sacrifice of damage can be worth the fact that you can link together the f.2.d overhead and whatnot in combination.
Hmm I'll have to check it out because if they block your run you get 3% chip and being in with the chance of hitting it for additional damage and being in again... Sounds like its worth it but I'd hate to get blown up doing it.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Hmm I'll have to check it out because if they block your run you get 3% chip and being in with the chance of hitting it for additional damage and being in again... Sounds like its worth it but I'd hate to get blown up doing it.
One you are in the corner you don't need to worry about it, the b.23 d.2 b.23 is just an option select at midscreen, but in the corner you can do b.23 b.23 f.3 and if done right you'll hit it meaty off of the fast stand.

Another thing is you can do junk like going into command grab out of it an you'll still land the fast stand hit. b.23 dash under command grab is a nice little gimmick.
 

GGA Max

Well-Known Member
Having a hell of a time finding midscreen links for this
Yeah its tough. Doombawkz do you have, in your list what gives enough advantage for a free jump, while cannot be rolled from?

Air F1; B2,1 are two of them but I'm pretty sure they push back A LOT such that it only beats wake up attacks that have "forward" hit boxes. Like how Sinestro moves back to do the sting, these will whiff and you can't cancel into the throw.

BF2 into this is awesome if they don't roll man.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Yeah its tough. Doombawkz do you have, in your list what gives enough advantage for a free jump, while cannot be rolled from?

Air F1; B2,1 are two of them but I'm pretty sure they push back A LOT such that it only beats wake up attacks that have "forward" hit boxes. Like how Sinestro moves back to do the sting, these will whiff and you can't cancel into the throw.

BF2 into this is awesome if they don't roll man.
Enough advantage for a free jump AND no roll? Feck... uh... not really, no. I mean you can do something like 22...

Try b.23 b.1 22 into it, it might work.
 

GGA Max

Well-Known Member
Yeah, I've messed with 22, I don't think you're able to hit the J3 as they're standing up, which means they can dash back before J3 even hits.
 

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Yeah, I've messed with 22, I don't think you're able to hit the J3 as they're standing up, which means they can dash back before J3 even hits.
I just tried it, adding in the b.1 puts them at a range where you can do the jump in an it looks pretty much the same to me.
 
Yea tried 22, doesn't seem to be forgiving enough on the timing. (edit) just read the b1, working for me now.

b2,1 is viable midscreen, pretty sure you've covered that though. and even though it's rather situational, if you connect on the j3, you can go into b23, db2 and have enough time for the trap as well.