Strategy - Swarm Queen D'vorah holes in her combos(punishing combos)

[MadeOfMetal]

lets start with NO i dont think she needs a nerf or a buff, i think she and every other character needs to be left alone in that aspect.

what im talking about in this thread is normal game mechanics. not MU (every character has this mechanic)

with that in mind, i decided to post this up so the D'vorah players/haters that are new to her but love playing her and want to further her game and or further their game against her possibly can do so.

some of them might want to know that some combos that feel safe on block, actually are not that safe, and in fact can be combo punished by a few fast character strings and almost always Metered through at these specific points in her strings.

knowing this can not only strengthen your game as her but strengthen your game against her as well.

you may use these combos and you may not use them.
but it would be good to know which ones can be punished,
some times frame data lies and says its safe. jk

below is the data sheet:


Key:

D=down
U=up
F=forward
B=back
~ = punishable point/wiff frames

keep in mind that just because they can be punished, doesnt make them worthless tools in a match. there is always a time and place a combo can be used!

NOTE: all these are punishable if you block them up to the symbol i use that illustrates the opening or gap in the combo ( ~ )

D'Vorah (Swarm Queen)

Punishable Strings:

• 11 ~ 3 (you can wiff the overhead into a full combo, meter through into combo, or simply back-dash at the beginning of the 26 recovery frames all the way up to the 1 frame before the last frame on startup of the 3)

simply put after the first to hits punish it with what your heart desires.(yes you can wiff that overhead )

• 21 ~ 2 (yet another overhead wiff, u can full combo this if you have a fast enough combo, you can definitely meter burn through it while she is still on block stun from the 21 string)

Last but not least:

is a special move that occasionally gets linked on to strings to start that juggle

• Vortex Swarm

any combo, and i mean any combo that gets canceled into vortex swarm that you have blocked is punishable,

lets say you through out 212 and they miss the opening before your last hit (21 ~ [2] ) then you cancel into DB1 ( vortex swarm) there is a huge delay that they can punish you with meter or combos that lunge forward and are quick on start-up, or even a fast special

so if you know they know this be careful not to link that to often. throw it out randomly or better yet try to hit confirm, i know some times it just links without intention but it is what it is.

and guess what same goes for Metered version of this special:

• Infestation (DB1+block)

except its a little harder to combo into that without very fast frames and forward moving strings, meter burn will basically devastate you in that situation.

and thats all i found so far

as usual tell me if i left anything out,

my goal in this is to educate and to be educated at the same time.

I hope this helps everyone play with/against D'vorah (Swarm Queen)

and i hope others list things i might have missed or how i did, and maybe even who they want to be done next

or tell me what you didn't like about it and ill try my best to correct those problems.

EazySleazyGames,
ESG Jagged

 

[Altsa]

I kinda disagree with you about the 113.

I only spent 10 minutes testing this and IF D'Vorah is right next to you it was impossible (for me ) to armor or backdash before the 3 hit.
However IF I blocked the 11 from maximum distance, only then I was able to armor/backdash (every time).

So there is a different blockstun depending on how close you are to D'Vorah

 

[MadeOfMetal]

I kinda disagree with you about the 113.

I only spent 10 minutes testing this and IF D'Vorah is right next to you it was impossible (for me ) to armor or backdash before the 3 hit.
However IF I blocked the 11 from maximum distance, only then I was able to armor/backdash (every time).

So there is a different blockstun depending on how close you are to D'Vorah

weird cuz i was right next to her and it worked every time, ill try it again and get back to you, maybe a glitch on either end

thank you for the input, i will get back to you on this

 

[MadeOfMetal]

I kinda disagree with you about the 113.

I only spent 10 minutes testing this and IF D'Vorah is right next to you it was impossible (for me ) to armor or backdash before the 3 hit.
However IF I blocked the 11 from maximum distance, only then I was able to armor/backdash (every time).

So there is a different blockstun depending on how close you are to D'Vorah

certain specials are to slow to punish this. u must make sure that the one you are using to punish is fast enough to get out of the circle before it pops. then your in candy land combo ville.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

weird cuz i was right next to her and it worked every time, ill try it again and get back to you, maybe a glitch on either end

thank you for the input, i will get back to you on this

just had several people check it and its solid... the timing is small so keep at it... then it will be so easy you cant believe it

 

[KNX]

OP is correct, you can armor through 113 reliably

 

[↓ 1]

This is a great help - I'm not sure if I'm missing stuff in other threads, but it seems we have a lot of technique focusing on our own execution, but not a lot of discussion on our opponents yet. As one of those guys that is in-between casual and competitive, this is really good info to have when trying to make that jump to really competitive - Thanks!

 

[ragemaker]

Just in case no one knows: Her f+112 xx wasp cancel frame trap can be low profiled if the move used immediately after wasp cancel is a high. This sucks because as far as I can tell, using 212 after the wasp cancel is the only true frame trap where they cannot reverse it if done properly.

 

[Altsa]

Just got back home and tried it again.

Yes there is a small gap in 113. I was able to backdash and armor through it with Kung Lao, even with D'Vorah at close range.

However, I can't (for the life of me) do the same thing with Shinnok (the character I used when I first tested this). Might just be my execution, though.

Still, the distance between you and D'Vorah using 113 makes a big difference.

Edit. Okay, going all out. Shinnok cant do shit against close range 113. Prove me wrong, lol.

 

[Blind_Ducky]

Just in case no one knows: Her f+112 xx wasp cancel frame trap can be low profiled if the move used immediately after wasp cancel is a high. This sucks because as far as I can tell, using 212 after the wasp cancel is the only true frame trap where they cannot reverse it if done properly.

F112 bug cancel is about +16 on block. It grants a free 50/50 between f2 and b1. Or a free 11% block string by doing f112 bug cancel, f112 bug cancel, f112 ex ovipositer.

 

[Vak Phoenix]

Just to burst your bubble no D'Vorah player does 212 on block, i personally use 212 for punishes and after wasp cancels. 113 i use if it hits as well.

 

[Zoidberg747]

Just to burst your bubble no D'Vorah player does 212 on block, i personally use 212 for punishes and after wasp cancels. 113 i use if it hits as well.

I do it cause no one knows to backdash it or the puddle when you cancel into it.

But yeah OP you might want to add that F22 bug cancel and b1 bug cancel are both neutral/negative and can be poked out of. That is really important when fighting Swarm Queen.

 

[mountlover]

FIGURED IT OUT!
113 has a frame between the 1 and the 3 at most ranges, but when close enough, it's a tight blockstring. You can test this out yourself by knocking down the training dummy, then doing a run up 113. You'll be close enough for the 3 to connect on the correct frame.

It looks like NRS intended for this to be a tight blockstring, but made the hitbox on the first frame of the 3 too short for it to actually work.

 

[Zoidberg747]

FIGURED IT OUT!
113 has a frame between the 1 and the 3 at most ranges, but when close enough, it's a tight blockstring. You can test this out yourself by knocking down the training dummy, then doing a run up 113. You'll be close enough for the 3 to connect on the correct frame.

It looks like NRS intended for this to be a tight blockstring, but made the hitbox on the first frame of the 3 too short for it to actually work.

So what you are saying is if you run up and do 113 then the opponent cannot armor/interrupt?

 

[mountlover]

So what you are saying is if you run up and do 113 then the opponent cannot armor/interrupt?

If you can manage to get closer to your opponent than the game lets you get at neutral, then yes. It works if you run up 113 on wakeup, and it works if you run up 113 while the opponent is in blockstun (like when wgc-ing from f112).

EDIT: just realized I was meatying the second 1, so this theory is moot. I still can't explain why 113 is sometimes tight in training mode. Is the dummy just inconsistent?

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Just to burst your bubble no D'Vorah player does 212 on block, i personally use 212 for punishes and after wasp cancels. 113 i use if it hits as well.

i use 212 every now and then... i don't tend to use the same overhead over and over on players... that's the kind of thing that makes you predictable... believe it or not i even use unsafe combos out of the blue.. and because i don't use them often maybe 1 or 2 times in a match... it connects and if not i cancel into back-dash or a safe special, hit confirm and all.

there is safe points to use any move in my opinion, depending on your opponents skill level and reaction time

 

[MadeOfMetal]

So what you are saying is if you run up and do 113 then the opponent cannot armor/interrupt?

yes you still can... armor soaks that hit and goes through... from medium range, afar, close up or them running at you... it can be armored through... it is very timing base but can be done consistently with practice

 

[MadeOfMetal]

If you can manage to get closer to your opponent than the game lets you get at neutral, then yes. It works if you run up 113 on wakeup, and it works if you run up 113 while the opponent is in blockstun (like when wgc-ing from f112).

lets say your raiden any variation, it doesnt matter if your starting range or close up to them.

i used a couple friends to test this out as well as ai reversal, over and over for hours... and its solid.. you just have to input at the exact time.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Just got back home and tried it again.

Yes there is a small gap in 113. I was able to backdash and armor through it with Kung Lao, even with D'Vorah at close range.

However, I can't (for the life of me) do the same thing with Shinnok (the character I used when I first tested this). Might just be my execution, though.

Still, the distance between you and D'Vorah using 113 makes a big difference.

Edit. Okay, going all out. Shinnok cant do shit against close range 113. Prove me wrong, lol.

yes certain characters cant... all im pointing out is certain characters have the startup frames and ground coverage on specials to pull it off easily...

what move did you use with shinnok, and what variation cuz ill try my best to get through it for you and possible if i have time show u a video of it

 

[DevilMaySpy]

Thanks for all of your efforts Eazy Sleazy and thank you @Altsa for testing this. I am certainly a D'Vorah hater and it is refreshing to hear that she has gaps in her strings. I'll have to practice getting out of this later.

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Thanks for all of your efforts Eazy Sleazy and thank you @Altsa for testing this. I am certainly a D'Vorah hater and it is refreshing to hear that she has gaps in her strings. I'll have to practice getting out of this later.

np just trying to find all character gaps in hopes people will not nerf anyone, unless they are so far gone... so if anyone can makle requests about any character i will do my best to find gaps for you.

looking for them right now

 

[MadeOfMetal]

Edit. Okay, going all out. Shinnok cant do shit against close range 113. Prove me wrong, lol.

here is the video:

 

[TopTierHarley]

Thanks for all of your efforts Eazy Sleazy and thank you @Altsa for testing this. I am certainly a D'Vorah hater and it is refreshing to hear that she has gaps in her strings. I'll have to practice getting out of this later.

Smh

 

[MadeOfMetal]

if you get familiar with all of the characters. and learn the strings that people punish you with the most and then find the gaps, all you have to do is practice punishing these small windows of opportunity, it's hard at first but if you keep practicing it's just like combos in muscle memory.

 

[DevilMaySpy]

np just trying to find all character gaps in hopes people will not nerf anyone, unless they are so far gone... so if anyone can makle requests about any character i will do my best to find gaps for you.

looking for them right now

Alright, well, after seeing the video, I've never been hit by that string. All the Swarm Queens use F112 and you can't do shit about that, so I'll have to go back to spilling salt everywhere. Thanks for trying though.