Strategy Double Punch Mix Up Pressure

[Doombawkz]

IMO progressing the venom with expirations isn't wise. The cooldown on level 1 is only 2 seconds and your damage isn't decreased much at all in the meantime. You can MB anything in that frame and it'll cover it.

 

[big_aug]

It's not about damage. It's about the armor and staying on people.

 

[Doombawkz]

That's the thing, you can keep consistant pressure using only level 1 instead of going from 1 to 3 and having to deal with those debuffs.

2 seconds debuff inbetween the armor and pressure, with 8 seconds per buff...

VS

21 seconds of pressure for 9 seconds of taking extreme damage.


You get 32 seconds worth of pressure from just cycling level 1 for the same amount of cooldown as your 21 seconds of straight pressure, with lesser damage dealt sure but a lot more damage avoided. You can keep much better pressure than trying to stay in with level 3 debuffs.

 

[big_aug]

I'd rather be stuffing wakeups or have that threat there than be looking to block and having them jump out or something. You can't try to stuff a green lantern wakeup if your venom runs out, so you go to lvl 2. Lvl 3 is bad yea.

 

[Doombawkz]

I'd rather be stuffing wakeups or have that threat there than be looking to block and having them jump out or something. You can't try to stuff a green lantern wakeup if your venom runs out, so you go to lvl 2. Lvl 3 is bad yea.

I still disagree with it, if you are just looking to pressure GL then use level 1 cycling and just stuff him with a command grab when its about to run out. Worst come to, GL has trash mobility anyways so its not like we can't just sit in his face and block his lift, then punish for free.

 

[keo-bas]

meter burn double punch is good positioning tool depedning on what position you want. While Bane vortex is amazing their time where it isn't or you would want to change pacing. Meter burn double punch has faster recovery which is good for nummber of things, mainly strengthening is vortex game. Its exceptionally good when near corners and near interact atcables.

 

[big_aug]

It goes for a lot of characters, not just GL.

 

[Doombawkz]

It goes for a lot of characters, not just GL.

Most characters can be tossed for it, just a normal 10 frame wake-up grab and then trap with it.

 

[big_aug]

OK I'm clearly missing something if you can grab people through their wake up attacks without armor.

 

[Doombawkz]

OK I'm clearly missing something if you can grab people through their wake up attacks without armor.

10 frames is actually a bit faster than a lot of people's wake-up options if you are grabbing before they are fully up. To note it, our fastest jab is only 9 frames, so its practically our fastest attack with decent priority on it and the hitbox is surprisingly big. Plus it depends on what you ended your last combo with, if you ended it in most untechables or forced stands (late b.21 and f.1) then yeah you can hit them before they can wake-up attack you. If you have to crutch on the venom to keep people down then make that read, block the wake-up they will toss and punish.

Otherwise though eventually they will just guard your wake-up and that's where the grab comes in. At about jab speed, you really don't need armor on it to be effective with it.

 

[AA25Mamba]

10 frames is actually a bit faster than a lot of people's wake-up options if you are grabbing before they are fully up. To note it, our fastest jab is only 9 frames, so its practically our fastest attack with decent priority on it and the hitbox is surprisingly big. Plus it depends on what you ended your last combo with, if you ended it in most untechables or forced stands (late b.21 and f.1) then yeah you can hit them before they can wake-up attack you. If you have to crutch on the venom to keep people down then make that read, block the wake-up they will toss and punish.

Otherwise though eventually they will just guard your wake-up and that's where the grab comes in. At about jab speed, you really don't need armor on it to be effective with it.

You time the normal throw for when they start getting up and it works?

 

[Doombawkz]

You time the normal throw for when they start getting up and it works?

Yeah, I use normal grab a lot actually. Its soooo much better than expected.
As I said before, depends on how you leave them on the floor but for the most part yeah.

 

[AA25Mamba]

I'm liking your ideas with it. I used the normal grab into command grab last night and it worked well. The reverse throw puts them too far away though.

 

[RYX]

I'm liking your ideas with it. I used the normal grab into command grab last night and it worked well. The reverse throw puts them too far away though.

Reverse throw is good for things that can't be punished with anything(safe stuff) if you're cornered.

If you can go for damage then c.grab that shit, MB it and reverse to corner them.

 

[big_aug]

I tested it for a while. Normal throw does not work against a lot of wakeups. It might work against some of a character's wakeups, but not all or the better ones. It definitely doesn't work on GLs lift or Aquamans's trident. Unless I'm horrible and could not get it to work a single time in a half hour.

 

[RYX]

I tested it for a while. Normal throw does not work against a lot of wakeups. It might work against some of a character's wakeups, but not all or the better ones. It definitely doesn't work on GLs lift or Aquamans's trident. Unless I'm horrible and could not get it to work a single time in a half hour.

Not wake-ups, punishes. I.e a blocked string or special that leaves them at a disadvantage that you can't punish with a full combo(-9 or more), so you throw and reverse them into the corner.

 

[big_aug]

OK, I'm confused because I was talking about stuffing wakeups with venom and Doombawkz is saying not to go past level 1 venom and use normal throw to stuff wakeups.

 

[Doombawkz]

That's because you are doing it too late. Theres a point where you can grab them as they are just getting up.

Don't worry about normal throw, just do your usual wake-up. Use normal throw to punish unsafe strings and if they wise up and guard.

 

[big_aug]

I don't think I'm doing it too late. I spent about a half hour doing it and never got it once against those moves. I got it against some others, but no one would ever wakeup with Trident throw in your face lol

 

[Doombawkz]

I don't think I'm doing it too late. I spent about a half hour doing it and never got it once against those moves. I got it against some others, but no one would ever wakeup with Trident throw in your face lol

Are you trying to stuff wake-ups, or outspeed them?

 

[big_aug]

I don't know what the difference is

 

[Doombawkz]

If you are trying to "stuff" them, you are waiting until they are putting out the commands then trying to grab them before the move itself can come out. If you are trying to "outspeed" them, you are using the grab before putting in the command is an option so your grab will connect right as they are standing, meaning the start-up of their attack will have to go against the last 3 or 5 frames of your grab if done properly.

You aren't trying to beat out a wake-up, you are trying to eliminate. We both know you have to kill them, they will simply have to imagine the wake-up.

 

[big_aug]

I really think you're mistaken. There is no "getting up" period. They go from on the ground to doing the attack. Aquaman's trident rush is the perfect example.

 

[Doombawkz]

I really think you're mistaken. There is no "getting up" period. They go from on the ground to doing the attack. Aquaman's trident rush is the perfect example.

I think you are mistaken, there are "getting up" periods you can take advantage of. People going to attack still have to outspeed those 5 or 3 frames of a properly buffered grab with whatever attack they are doing. Also some characters, lets say they don't wake-up attack but guard instead, they have to deal with the problem as well.

If you have to crutch on the venom to keep people down then make that read, block the wake-up they will toss and punish.

Otherwise though eventually they will just guard your wake-up and that's where the grab comes in.

and

Plus it depends on what you ended your last combo with, if you ended it in most untechables or forced stands (late b.21 and f.1) then yeah you can hit them before they can wake-up attack you.