Tech Doomsday Reversal Cross-up

[SonicBoomBrad]

You should have posted this after the zod hotfix

What do you mean?

 

[Vintagesoul]

I hope not, I just found out how to do it mid screen. Video incoming in the next hour or so.

Really looking forward to this.

 

[Roko1985]

It works in all stages in all corners.

I have to check this again! You couldn't before!

 

[AK elitegoomba]

this is sick. time to copypasta to WW

 

[Vintagesoul]

I hope not, I just found out how to do it mid screen. Video incoming in the next hour or so. It's very similar to Street Fighter safe jumps. Forces them to block. I really don't think that's a bad thing considering how good wake ups are in this game.

So, erm, how about that mid screen version...

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

So, erm, how about that mid screen version...

I shouldn't have said I'd get it out so early. To be completely honest I got a little over excited before working out all the kinks. As soon as I have everything figured out I'll put it up.

 

[knight x1868]

If you dash too close to Joker's Bang on wake up it will hit you. So basically duck!
Also, Joker's Laughing Gas will bounce back and smack you in the teeth.

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

If you dash too close to Joker's Bang on wake up it will hit you. So basically duck!
Also, Joker's Laughing Gas will bounce back and smack you in the teeth.

A Joker would never do either of those moves on wake up. So I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[knight x1868]

A Joker would never do either of those moves on wake up. So I wouldn't worry about it.

Just from testing lol! I typically down block after the dash...

 

[Vintagesoul]

I shouldn't have said I'd get it out so early. To be completely honest I got a little over excited before working out all the kinks. As soon as I have everything figured out I'll put it up.

Would you mind posting it? Maybe the rest of us can help lab it a little.

On a semi-related note, I'm sure some people have noticed this. After an MB air snatch, if you dash forward, you'll still be infront of the opponent. But if you dash forward and neutral jump, the jump will be a cross up. Now it's not really a mix up, since the cross up is easy to eye ball and block, and there doesn't seem to be a way to get the neutral jump to hit front, but its an interesting property nonetheless... Definitely worth breaking down more in the lab.

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

Would you mind posting it? Maybe the rest of us can help lab it a little.

On a semi-related note, I'm sure some people have noticed this. After an MB air snatch, if you dash forward, you'll still be infront of the opponent. But if you dash forward and neutral jump, the jump will be a cross up. Now it's not really a mix up, since the cross up is easy to eye ball and block, and there doesn't seem to be a way to get the neutral jump to hit front, but its an interesting property nonetheless... Definitely worth breaking down more in the lab.

I'm just waiting on my buddy to make the video. I have everything worked out. I'll post the write up later today. For realzies.

 

[Vintagesoul]

Still in the formulation stage, but I think Doomsday pretty much has a corner loop against Black Adams who either Lightning Storm or Lightning Cage on wake up.

Start from d1> ES or d3:

If d1 ES, dash forward immediately and jump up. If d3, wait a 1/4 sec then dash forward and jump up.

If Adam Wakes up with LS it will face backwards and you should still be in front. Proceed to combo into jd3> 2,3, d+1 ES. (Yes I realise that he has more damaging combos. Unfortunately, comboing into other special attacks will not allow you to continue doing reversal cross ups and comboing into ES when the opponent is in juggle state will ALSO not allow you to continue doing reversal cross ups.) Repeat.

If Adam wakes up with LC, Combo with j3, d3 (jd3 will whiff thanks to the small hit box it now has). Repeat.

Implications of this loop? IMO, the biggest implication is that Doomsday does not require his Trait to do sustained pressure in the corner against Bladam. So traiting while you're trying to get in is a now a great idea.

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

combo into jd3> 2,3, d+1 ES. (Yes I realise that he has more damaging combos. Unfortunately, comboing into other special attacks will not allow you to continue doing reversal cross ups and comboing into ES when the opponent is in juggle state will ALSO not allow you to continue doing reversal cross ups.)

You can actually do Splash> 23 xx MB ES d2 > 3 xx ES and continue with the same corner pressure while getting a little more damage. Conversely you can do d1 MB ES as a mix up if they're starting to block your normal ES. You can also cross up splash on their wake up to get a little more tricky and do either 3 xx MB ES 3 air grab, or just 3 air grab if you're manly enough to do 1 normal hit confirms. And you still get the dash to cross up their wake up from the air grab. That's the tech I've been working on since the DJT match.

 

[Vintagesoul]

You can actually do Splash> 23 xx MB ES d2 > 3 xx ES and continue with the same corner pressure while getting a little more damage. Conversely you can do d1 MB ES as a mix up if they're starting to block your normal ES. You can also cross up splash on their wake up to get a little more tricky and do either 3 xx MB ES 3 air grab, or just 3 air grab if you're manly enough to do 1 normal hit confirms. And you still get the dash to cross up their wake up from the air grab. That's the tech I've been working on since the DJT match.

Good shit. Just one thing though. Afaik, D1 mb ES isn't really a mix up. The timing to correctly block d1xxES and d1xxmb ES is the same.

The mix up I've been working on incorporating into my game is d1 (no buffer) ES. It's not a block string, but it will hit anyone who is focused on blocking d1xx ES

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

Good shit. Just one thing though. Afaik, D1 mb ES isn't really a mix up. The timing to correctly block d1xxES and d1xxmb ES is the same.

The mix up I've been working on incorporating into my game is d1 (no buffer) ES. It's not a block string, but it will hit anyone who is focused on blocking d1xx ES

It's enough to confuse people in the moment I think. But delaying the es is also good.

 

[MastererBetty]

Found that performing the string 112 in corner then an immediate dash forward will also cause reversals to reverse directions.

However if the opponent tech rolls 112 then the reversal will not reverse directions, but still some useful knowledge DD players should take into account when practicing the reversal wake up attack

 

[Pan1cMode]

Just a quick question, I know I could test this out but was wondering if there was already a list, which projectiles still go the correct way even when reversed and thrown at the corner?

I know from testing that;

Both Supes lasers go forward
All of DS' guns shoot forward
Batgirl's batarang shoots forward
MMH's psi orb shoots forward
Aquaman's trident shoots forward

If such a list exists it'd be really helpful

EDIT:
I should probably mention that I am using batgirl to test this but it's exactly the same kind of situation, (db33 HKD, dash forward)

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

Just a quick question, I know I could test this out but was wondering if there was already a list, which projectiles still go the correct way even when reversed and thrown at the corner?

I know from testing that;

Both Supes lasers go forward
All of DS' guns shoot forward
Batgirl's batarang shoots forward
MMH's psi orb shoots forward
Aquaman's trident shoots forward

If such a list exists it'd be really helpful

EDIT:
I should probably mention that I am using batgirl to test this but it's exactly the same kind of situation, (db33 HKD, dash forward)

Why in the hell would anyone wake up with a projectile? Anyway, I'd assume even if they do go forward you'd be able to duck them and punish.

 

[Pan1cMode]

Why in the hell would anyone wake up with a projectile? Anyway, I'd assume even if they do go forward you'd be able to duck them and punish.

Oh I know it's not a smart move, but if they know about the reversal cross up they could throw it out to stuff you up. For example Mb ground sweep supes laser could be used to push you out of the corner.

Also, I wasn't able to reverse supers (as batgirl at least). Can doomsday reverse supers?

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

Oh I know it's not a smart move, but if they know about the reversal cross up they could throw it out to stuff you up. For example Mb ground sweep supes laser could be used to push you out of the corner.

Also, I wasn't able to reverse supers (as batgirl at least). Can doomsday reverse supers?

Technically he can but only if they wake up with it on the first reversal frame. Which most people aren't capable of doing.

 

[Metzos]

SonicBoomBrad, better start searching the MB AS. I have found some interesting stuff so far for it. They are similar to your tech. I ll post them soon.

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

SonicBoomBrad, better start searching the MB AS. I have found some interesting stuff so far for it. They are similar to your tech. I ll post them soon.

I've noticed it does have really interesting properties. I was hoping it would have something similar to the Grundy WC MB with the stance cancel, but I've had no luck with it so far. I also tested the 3 xx MB ES earlier in some sets with Legend. It seemed to be a pretty good block string. Still not 100% on it being uninteruptable though. Also doing 3 xx ES to mix up their timing on blocking d1 xx ES seems to work pretty nicely. I'm working on more mix ups off d1 too.

 

[Metzos]

I've noticed it does have really interesting properties. I was hoping it would have something similar to the Grundy WC MB with the stance cancel, but I've had no luck with it so far. I also tested the 3 xx MB ES earlier in some sets with Legend. It seemed to be a pretty good block string. Still not 100% on it being uninteruptable though. Also doing 3 xx ES to mix up their timing on blocking d1 xx ES seems to work pretty nicely. I'm working on more mix ups off d1 too.

3xx ES works great in the corner. If opponent is waiting for another 33 loop in the corner you can mix it up from there. Its really useful.

 

[Doombawkz]

@SonicBoomBrad You handsome devil, I was testing similar stuff with Bane and I figured I'd share these two videos since only DD an Bane can really take full advantage (being the only two body splash characters).

Yeah I know "Doombawkz stop posting Bane" but this is actually relevant this time, promise. So after a sweep, I've found both DD and Bane cause this interesting state where they can dash over and n.j. splash (like the OP's video vs scorp) and it'll reverse their wake-ups and cross-up as well meaning anything safe on whiff won't be. DD gets extra use because his trait will let him armor through anything they throw at him. Theres more junk about it being a stance-specific cross-up/fakie that I haven't looked into DD's side yet, and he doesn't have the benefit of a command grab tick throw but hopefully it gives some ideas?

This one is more about the directional flips it causes. I've gotten a doubleflip on DD, and I've gotten about a 5-flip on Bane. Essentially, its a cross-up/non-cross-up/cross-up that has a back-forward input requirement similar to blocking ES. It'll scramble wake-ups, prevent dashes (somewhat, the opponent has to be on the ball), and provides some great corner reset pressure potential. I haven't been able to get much more than just the doubleflip because DD's jump isn't as floaty, but from what I've seen only our two characters get this ambiguous rapid-flipping because of the spread hitbox on our splashes.

So yeah, maybe it gives some ideas or you guys maybe already knew, just figured I'd share.

 

[SonicBoomBrad]

@Doombawkz I posted a thread on that right after I made this one. It's pretty dirty and works really well mid screen as a 50/50. But you have to land the sweep.