Tech Don't wake up against Harley

[NoobHunter420]

Nothing is broke. It's actually quite the opposite, the wakeup system is working as intended.

Stuffing these wakeups has nothing to do with Harley. They are all simply not fully invincible. Zod's palm, Aquaman's Trident Rush, Raven's lift, they're all not fully invincible. So as long as your attack is active when the invincibility runs out it will hit. Any character can stuff these wakeups with any move as long as the timing is on point.

I was being sarcastic l0l
I am well aware, I watch GGA streams quite often

 

[Kitana Prime]

Mhm. So, you think you can stop my Venom? PFT. WE SHALL SEE.

Speaking of which, I haven't ran into you on ranked matches in a while. DA FUQ U BEN MAYN?

Man....time has been harsh to me. Ive been playing again recently though, you should see me soon enough!

 

[Laos_boy]

Nothing is broke. It's actually quite the oppositewakeup system is working as intended.

Stuffthese wakeups has nothing to do with Harley. They are all simply not fully invincible. Zod's palm, Aquaman's Trident Rush, Raven's lift, they're all not fully invincible. So as long as your attack is active when the invincibility runs out it will hit. Any character can stuff these wakeups with any move as long as the timing is on point.

Yeah I know. This was just an easy way to stuff wake ups other than timing when to do your move. You actually inspired me to go and look for ways to stuff wake ups.

 

[Groove Heaven]

But Zod always wakes up...

This is nuts.

 

[Saboteur-6]

Nothing is broke. It's actually quite the opposite, the wakeup system is working as intended.

Stuffing these wakeups has nothing to do with Harley. They are all simply not fully invincible. Zod's palm, Aquaman's Trident Rush, Raven's lift, they're all not fully invincible. So as long as your attack is active when the invincibility runs out it will hit. Any character can stuff these wakeups with any move as long as the timing is on point.

Could you elaborate with some specific examples if you wouldln't mind. You could use Catwoman for easy reference. I get the general idea of what you're saying but it's tough to visualize. I only ask this because you mentioned recently somewhere (I forget) in how you feel learning to stuff wakeups will be critical in the evolution of the game. Thanks man.

 

[16 Bit]

Could you elaborate with some specific examples if you wouldln't mind. You could use Catwoman for easy reference. I get the general idea of what you're saying but it's tough to visualize. I only ask this because you mentioned recently somewhere (I forget) in how you feel learning to stuff wakeups will be critical in the evolution of the game. Thanks man.

All special moves can be done as a wake up attack. The number of invincible frames during the startup of a wake up attack is different from move to move. Some have none, some are semi invincible, some are fully invincible. The moves you see being stuffed during the first half of this video are semi invincible. Let's say Aquaman's Trident Rush has 20 frames of startup and 8 frames of invincibility. That means there's a 12 frame window where there's no invincibility. If you attack him during this window it will be stuffed. (Those are not the real numbers, I am just using them as an example). In this video you can see setups where Harley gets the knockdown and then these setups happen to be hitting him during that 12 frame window. However while these setups are good ways to time it anything can be used to hit them out of that 12 frame window if you time it right. So let's take Catwoman. Have her knock down Aquaman with 1,2,2. That's a hard knockdown that leaves him down for a while, giving you plenty of time to take a few steps forward and get the timing right. After taking a few steps do standing 3. If you time it right the standing 3 stuffs Trident Rush(and actually all of his other wakeup attacks as well). This is an easy example you can probably get it in a few tries. You can also do it with f+1,1,2 or b+1,2,d+3 or f+3 or whatever else you choose. There's a whole bunch of commonly used wake up attacks that people think are good that are only semi invincible and can be stuffed.

 

[Saboteur-6]

All special moves can be done as a wake up attack. The number of invincible frames during the startup of a wake up attack is different from move to move. Some have none, some are semi invincible, some are fully invincible. The moves you see being stuffed during the first half of this video are semi invincible. Let's say Aquaman's Trident Rush has 20 frames of startup and 8 frames of invincibility. That means there's a 12 frame window where there's no invincibility. If you attack him during this window it will be stuffed. (Those are not the real numbers, I am just using them as an example). In this video you can see setups where Harley gets the knockdown and then these setups happen to be hitting him during that 12 frame window. However while these setups are good ways to time it anything can be used to hit them out of that 12 frame window if you time it right. So let's take Catwoman. Have her knock down Aquaman with 1,2,2. That's a hard knockdown that leaves him down for a while, giving you plenty of time to take a few steps forward and get the timing right. After taking a few steps do standing 3. If you time it right the standing 3 stuffs Trident Rush(and actually all of his other wakeup attacks as well). This is an easy example you can probably get it in a few tries. You can also do it with f+1,1,2 or b+1,2,d+3 or f+3 or whatever else you choose. There's a whole bunch of commonly used wake up attacks that people think are good that are only semi invincible and can be stuffed.

Thanks dude, that helps a ton. Is there pretty accurate data out there on how specific wakeups behave (Vulnerable/Semi/Invincible) or did you guys just grind out frame data?

 

[16 Bit]

Thanks dude, that helps a ton. Is there pretty accurate data out there on how specific wakeups behave (Vulnerable/Semi/Invincible) or did you guys just grind out frame data?

No, unfortunately there's no way to get that data. It's all been found through trial and error.

 

[Saboteur-6]

No, unfortunately there's no way to get that data. It's all been found through trial and error.

I see, makes sense. Pretty valuable info to have though and you're right knowing what category (Vuln/Semi/Invuln) a wakeup falls under would dictate matchups at a level beyond how we currently look at the game.

 

[Jermball]

Very nice laos_boy...thanks for sharing